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-   -   Harness Recommendation (https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/harness-recommendation-89310/)

hornetball 06-06-2016 07:34 PM

Harness Recommendation
 
First time around, I went with cheapo G-Force Pull-Ups. They're expired now, and I've never liked them much. I really dislike the pull-up configuration. With a small person, they don't get tight enough. A large person ends up pinching the adjusters between the seat and thigh. A really large person ends up with the adjusters hanging up on the seat holes. It's always a confusing PITA to get people strapped in. I give a lot of rides and I want to do right by my passengers.

What are people's experiences? The enduro-style belts with pull-down adjusters integrated into the tangs look really nice -- but they're fairly expensive. Are there medium-cost belt setups that are easily adjusted to a variety of people or do I need ante up?

hornetball 06-06-2016 07:56 PM

Search fail.

Just found this, from only 3 months ago:

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...ndation-88046/

jpreston 06-06-2016 08:31 PM

I've done 6 or 7 days now with the Schroth Enduro belts and I have zero regrets about spending that money.

cyotani 06-06-2016 09:36 PM

I just switched from g-force to schroth profi II 6 point. It's much much better and well worth the money in my opinion. You can get the two inch lap belts really tight and how they did the lower point is much more comfortable on the crotch. lap belts can be switched easily from pull up to pull down. I have it in pull down and route them out the bucket seats and pull up on them to get snugged in.

GraemeD 06-06-2016 10:03 PM

I like the Safecraft harness. Having the lap adjusters part of the buckle makes them very easy to tighten by yourself while seated. HANS comparable and 2" lap.
Safety Harness 5010 - Safecraft

Savington 06-06-2016 11:10 PM

I have put Schroth Profi II-6Hs in 3 or 4 cars now and never once regretted spending the big bucks on those belts. I've used Willans and G-Force as well, and the Schroth stuff is on another level.

Efini~FC3S 06-07-2016 09:43 AM

Another vote for Schroth belts. We spend the money on the Schroths, even in our Chumpcars. In my experience with harnesses, you get what you pay for.

Dustin1824 06-07-2016 10:07 AM

Rick! Is your current harness setup a 5, or a 6 point?

I have a couple Schroth Profi-II 6 Hans harnesses coming next week (they are on backorder). They can be configured in either a pull-up or a pull-down, which is one reason I bought them. Right now I only have a driver's seat to install in the car, and I'm not buying passenger seat from OG until mid-July.

If swapping out belts is relatively easy, when my belts come in, you can try one out in your car if you like. I wont be using it until i get my passenger seat. If you have the time, it will be a good way for me to see how to properly configure and install a harness as well :idea:

OGRacing 06-07-2016 11:01 AM

1 Attachment(s)
G force are Good starter harnesses. The adjusters are a bit grabby and take a tug. but for under 200 bucks you really can't beat them. they have been documented with lots of crashes and good results.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465311678More Information HERE!

shuiend 06-07-2016 11:18 AM

I bought some G-force harnesses from OGRacing back in 05. They are decent starter harnesses, but I will be upgrading to Schroth's sometime this fall when I get new ones. After driving in a few different harnesses brands in lemons cars I totally agree the extra money for good ones is well worth it.

hornetball 06-07-2016 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by OGRacing (Post 1336951)
G force are Good starter harnesses. The adjusters are a bit grabby and take a tug. but for under 200 bucks you really can't beat them. they have been documented with lots of crashes and good results.

Fortunately, I've not had to crash test them but I know people who have and they came out OK. I will say that the shoulders are easy to adjust and the 3" G-Force shoulder webbing works just fine with a HANS. But the laps . . . man what a pain. They would be a lot better if they were 2" I think. Also, if you get them really tight and don't have to change them for different drivers they're fine.

I've been instructing in a lot of high $ cars with really nice Schroth belts lately. Do want. Snug lap belts = safe lap belts.

Code Monkey 06-07-2016 11:22 AM

+1 for Schroth Profi II

OGRacing 06-07-2016 11:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Before you get the schroth's Check out the OMP 805.

The lap belt is 2". Miata's are notoriously difficult to get a harness into. the solution is have a totally custom harness. the 805's adjuster can be moved inside or outside of the seat, or even switched from Pull-up to pull-down. this will allow you to achieve a perfect set up in a miata. the Aluminum adjusters are silky smooth with a firm positive lock. easy to tighten and keep tightened. Everyone that has a set loves them.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465313306Click here for more information.

hornetball 06-07-2016 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by Dustin1824 (Post 1336929)
Rick! Is your current harness setup a 5, or a 6 point?

I have a couple Schroth Profi-II 6 Hans harnesses coming next week (they are on backorder). They can be configured in either a pull-up or a pull-down, which is one reason I bought them. Right now I only have a driver's seat to install in the car, and I'm not buying passenger seat from OG until mid-July.

If swapping out belts is relatively easy, when my belts come in, you can try one out in your car if you like. I wont be using it until i get my passenger seat. If you have the time, it will be a good way for me to see how to properly configure and install a harness as well :idea:

Right now I'm 5-point and will have to change up my sub mounts to go to 6-point -- which I need to do regardless as you can't get a harness of the quality I'm looking for in 5-point anymore.

My car is down at the moment though. Spun a bearing on Saturday. It's at MER, should have it back in a couple of weeks with a decent VVT motor in it. It was fun telling all the Porsche and 'Vette guys that MER had a spare engine waiting for me that cost far less than their brake pads.

As thin as you are and as narrow as your seat is going to be, I think having the adjustment at the buckle ala Safecraft/Schroth Enduro might be important for you. Maybe we should test sit you. When I talked about the pull-ups not getting tight enough, I was thinking about that time you came out and rode with me.

hornetball 06-07-2016 12:10 PM


Originally Posted by OGRacing (Post 1336958)
Before you get the schroth's Check out the OMP 805.

The lap belt is 2". Miata's are notoriously difficult to get a harness into. the solution is have a totally custom harness. the 805's adjuster can be moved inside or outside of the seat, or even switched from Pull-up to pull-down. this will allow you to achieve a perfect set up in a miata. the Aluminum adjusters are silky smooth with a firm positive lock. easy to tighten and keep tightened. Everyone that has a set loves them.

I also noticed the OMP 806 on your site . . . looks like the Schroth Enduros. Honestly, the closer I can get the pull-down adjusters to the buckle, the better I think. I'll bet in a few years 2" laps with pull-down buckle-integrated adjusters will be a common feature. It seems like a much better solution. Can't think of a downside to it.

Dustin1824 06-07-2016 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by hornetball (Post 1336961)
Right now I'm 5-point and will have to change up my sub mounts to go to 6-point -- which I need to do regardless as you can't get a harness of the quality I'm looking for in 5-point anymore.

My car is down at the moment though. Spun a bearing on Saturday. It's at MER, should have it back in a couple of weeks with a decent VVT motor in it. It was fun telling all the Porsche and 'Vette guys that MER had a spare engine waiting for me that cost far less than their brake pads.

As thin as you are and as narrow as your seat is going to be, I think having the adjustment at the buckle ala Safecraft/Schroth Enduro might be important for you. Maybe we should test sit you. When I talked about the pull-ups not getting tight enough, I was thinking about that time you came out and rode with me.

Yeah, I remember that issue with it not getting tight enough, which is why i bought a belt that can be pull-up or down. I also thought the same thing about possibly needing Enduro belts too. Not sure why that adjustment feature makes it cost $200 more than the profi-II hans, but if I need to spend the cash to get a safe setup, I'll return/sell one of the Profi-II and buy an Enduro belt.

I'm debating getting my driver side seat and harness installed by MER, just because it's safety gear.

Sucks that you spun a bearing, but the VVT motor will probably get you some more midrange. How many hours on the motor before the spun bearing? Just out of curiosity...

OGRacing 06-07-2016 12:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by hornetball (Post 1336976)
I also noticed the OMP 806 on your site . . . looks like the Schroth Enduros. Honestly, the closer I can get the pull-down adjusters to the buckle, the better I think. I'll bet in a few years 2" laps with pull-down buckle-integrated adjusters will be a common feature. It seems like a much better solution. Can't think of a downside to it.


You mean like on the OMP 806. the only downside is that the adjuster need to be made from Steel. the adjustment isn't as buttery smooth as when we use aluminum. In a tight space you can't get any more compact.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465318021MORE INFO HERE!

hornetball 06-07-2016 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by Dustin1824 (Post 1336978)
How many hours on the motor before the spun bearing? Just out of curiosity...

Wish I kept records that good. Anyway, been flailing on it for a couple of years. Guessing a bit over 200 hours? Also, this was the motor that the machine shop sand blasted the head and left grit in the oil passages. I'm sure you remember my intake valve issue at Hallett a couple of years ago. Same bottom end.

Dustin1824 06-07-2016 01:26 PM

Something else to consider for the OMP 806 vs. Schroth Enduro:

The OMP "zip adjuster" is only on the lap belt. The Schroth has the same style adjuster for the shoulder belts and the lap belts. Not that standard shoulder adjusters are hard to use...just something to consider.

hornetball 06-07-2016 04:08 PM

2 Attachment(s)
For sanity's sake, putting it all down in one place (all prices are full retail as of today):

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1465331128

Savington 06-07-2016 04:14 PM

The Schroth folded/sewn sub straps are worth paying the extra money for over the OMP, IMO. That feature is the single biggest difference between the Profi and other belts - the comfort level on the Profi subs is mega.

Pull-up vs pull-down: The Schroth is reversible, but I always end up running them in pull-down config and then routing the excess belt through the hole in the seat. I use the seat as a pulley to convert the pull-down motion into a pull-up motion. When I set the belts up in pull-up mode, I can never get the adjuster close enough to the buckle to not interfere with the seat.

hornetball 06-07-2016 04:28 PM

Yeah, I was just noticing that. None of the others have easily adjustable substraps (i.e., need to pull the seat to adjust the subs).

Dustin1824 06-07-2016 05:01 PM

Wow, I didn't know the OMP offerings didn't have adjustable anti-sub belts.

Most here know how important it is to correctly adjust anti-sub belt(s) for crash safety, and I wouldn't consider a belt that doesn't have easily adjustable anti-sub belts.

hornetball 06-07-2016 05:03 PM

For a single driver, not a big deal -- just a bit of a pain to get right the first time as you'll need to pull the seat a couple of times.

For a passenger seat, mandatory I think.

Dustin1824 06-07-2016 05:23 PM

For you, you take a lot of people for rides, so it would make things much easier and probably safer to have an Enduro belt in the passenger side. Also, I really just want to ride in your car with the Enduro harness :party:

Some drivers have removable seat cushions they run on the street, and take them out on track days. That's what I'm planning for my Sparco. At least on mine, it's definately thick enough to need to adjust the anti-sub strap after you remove it. I'm sure many people would forget or be inclined to just leave their sub straps alone if they need to remove their seat to adjust them.

cyotani 06-07-2016 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by hornetball (Post 1337035)
For a single driver, not a big deal -- just a bit of a pain to get right the first time as you'll need to pull the seat a couple of times.

For a passenger seat, mandatory I think.

or for passenger side have the seat mounted on a slider and have them slide forward until the 5/6 point is properly adjusted.

hornetball 06-07-2016 06:22 PM


Originally Posted by cyotani (Post 1337040)
or for passenger side have the seat mounted on a slider and have them slide forward until the 5/6 point is properly adjusted.

Hadn't thought of that.

Not feasible for me, though -- running an aluminum seat with a really stout, non-adjustable seat back brace. But with a composite seat, absolutely.

cyotani 06-09-2016 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by hornetball (Post 1337042)
Hadn't thought of that.

Not feasible for me, though -- running an aluminum seat with a really stout, non-adjustable seat back brace. But with a composite seat, absolutely.

I hated consistently trying to have passenger noobs adjust my harness. So I used to have them just cam lock in then slide their seat forward as far as possible. It would take care of the lower points well then they'd just adjust the shoulder harness. EZ-PZ

d k 06-09-2016 04:51 PM

I would highly recommend the turn one harness.

Very high quality and great price.

hornetball 06-12-2016 10:33 PM

My local race shop, MER, had several cars available with these types of harnesses installed. I test-sat in an MX-5 practice car that had Safecrafts on the driver side and a Schroth Pofi-II on the passenger. Both harnesses were light-years beyond the G-Forces, but the Safecrafts won me over. MER cut me a deal on 2 harnesses so there wasn't a huge delta over the Schroth's.

Highly recommend test sits, both for seats and harnesses.

jpreston 06-12-2016 11:42 PM

Good choice. Those are really nice belts.

GraemeD 06-15-2016 08:31 PM

Second the good choice comment, love mine.

jpreston 01-27-2017 09:19 AM

Sparco has a new Enduro belt and it's crazy cheap.

Sparco 6 Point Endurance FHR Harness Black | Demon Tweeks

Sparco 6 Point GT FHR Harness | Demon Tweeks

Efini~FC3S 01-27-2017 02:41 PM

God Bless the Brexit!

hornetball 01-27-2017 02:50 PM

Wow. That looks like a fantastic value.

Dustin1824 01-27-2017 07:00 PM

Jeez, that makes me regret buying Schroth harnesses.

Those are 1/3 of the price of Schroth Enduros.

NiklasFalk 01-28-2017 01:08 PM

Never regret getting Schrott polyester compared to nylon. The difference stretch at impact is large (10% vs 30% IIRC).
(Just assuming the Spacing belts are nylon as they have been for ages)

Savington 01-30-2017 03:06 PM

Meh. For the extra $40/yr, I'll still buy the Schroth with the folded sub strap. You won't understand how big a deal that is until you try the Schroth belts.

nbfather 02-02-2017 03:24 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1337028)
The Schroth folded/sewn sub straps are worth paying the extra money for over the OMP, IMO. That feature is the single biggest difference between the Profi and other belts - the comfort level on the Profi subs is mega.

Pull-up vs pull-down: The Schroth is reversible, but I always end up running them in pull-down config and then routing the excess belt through the hole in the seat. I use the seat as a pulley to convert the pull-down motion into a pull-up motion. When I set the belts up in pull-up mode, I can never get the adjuster close enough to the buckle to not interfere with the seat.

So you put the pig tails of the harness through the seat and then pull up on it?
Do you think they are long enough to do the same on a bigger guy(6-5" #240) ?

We are looking at the Profi II 6H to allow for the Hans option at a later date.
Then probably the Profi II 6 for the passenger...I assume this is easier to adjust than the clubman for the passenger?
Are those the droids I am looking for?

Savington 02-02-2017 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by nbfather (Post 1390200)
So you put the pig tails of the harness through the seat and then pull up on it?
Do you think they are long enough to do the same on a bigger guy(6-5" #240) ?

Hard to say without trying it. My guess would be that you may be big enough to give yourself enough room to adjust a pull-down without needing to run the leftover strap through the seat.


We are looking at the Profi II 6H to allow for the Hans option at a later date.
I would allow for a HNRS device at the same time. It's not a good idea to wear a harness without one.

afm 02-02-2017 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1390297)
I would allow for a HNRS device at the same time. It's not a good idea to wear a harness without one.

Especially with the 6H harness, which is rated for HNRS use only.

Savington 02-02-2017 03:52 PM

Personally, I'd never wear any harness without a HNRS. Even when I'm hopping into a street car in sneakers and jeans, if there are 5/6-points, I have my helmet and HANS. There's no reason not to.

nbfather 02-02-2017 04:31 PM

Thanks!
Good information!


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