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Old 03-21-2013, 10:39 PM   #1
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Default HDHC vs HDHCHT roll bar

I'm trying to understand how much farther back and how much lower the Hard Top verision of the HDHC rollbar is. Does anyone have a measurements following measurements A and B? (For the record the rollbar in the picture below is not a Hard Dog, it is locally made)



Thanks!
Thomas
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HDHC vs HDHCHT roll bar-p1010108-diag.jpg  
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:31 AM   #2
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Check out the link attached. It lists a schematic in the upper right. You may have to check the individual bars, then the schematic, but you should be able to find what you are looking for.

Richard

Miata M2 Hard Core Hardtop Bar
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:31 AM   #3
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Those dimensions are in the HD website: Hard Dog Roll Bar Application Guide
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:52 PM   #4
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I got the HT model and it is supposed to allow use of the side latches. I can't use them because the roll bar encroaches into the area. If I was to do it over again I would not get the HT model since I would have to use the bolt in brackets anyway. I have heard others used the non-HT model with a HT without issues

R U sitting on the floor?
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomiboy View Post
I got the HT model and it is supposed to allow use of the side latches. I can't use them because the roll bar encroaches into the area. If I was to do it over again I would not get the HT model since I would have to use the bolt in brackets anyway. I have heard others used the non-HT model with a HT without issues
You probably installed it incorrectly. This happens a lot because most people rush the install and do not take time to properly align everything. This is the same reason a lot of people have problems with the seatbelts and others do not. Having it just a little off makes a huge difference.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #6
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You gotta be kidding. I've installed 2 and it would be awfully hard to install wrong. It bolts directly to the seat belt towers. They may be off, but would they would be off on both sides on 2 cars? Please explain how one would install one wrong
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #7
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An improper installation can **** up your seatbelts? Dammit, it looks like I'm taking my roll bar off to properly install it at some point then. It came on the car, but I didn't think there was a way to **** up the installation, so I didn't even think about it. My seatbelt guides are totally fucked, and they get reversed and stuck all the time.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:12 PM   #8
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From what I understand they can be somehow misaligned. Hard dog was getting a bunch of complaints about things not fitting correctly and the seatbelt guides being a pain and it was found that people were not installing the roll bar correctly. When you mass produce a uniform simple product like a bolt in roll bar and a lot of people who are DIY installing it are having completely different fitment issues on the same model car it can usually be attributed to user error. There has been no evidence that hard dog's bars are not all uniform or that there is a defect in the design.

I am just speaking to the evidence and the most likely conclusion. If the bar is not fitting or causing problems it is more than likely caused because of a faulty installation.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:34 PM   #9
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Every Miata you install one in is different. I'm sure hard dog does a good job, and I'd buy another, but I would not expect it to drop into place! Each car I have done had issues in a different area, but when done there is ZERO movement. It is tight. They could probably make it easier to install by opening up some of the holes, etc., but it would be a loose fit and who would want that? Anyone with a little common sense can install one but it's no picnic. I never felt rushed on either one. You are cutting up your car, the carpet, the trim, drilling holes, etc.. I might rush on your car but not on mine! (seriously, there is no rushing on the install) I want it perfect. I don't care about the side latches fitting or not I'm just saying not to base your choice of roll bar on this.

OP I'll try to remember to get you those measurements tomnite when I get home

Last edited by tomiboy; 03-22-2013 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:15 PM   #10
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I installed a M2 Sport recently and my passenger side seatbelt has no problems at all, but my driver side seatbelt will not retract for anything. I spent a lot of time during the install (it took me 14 hours) trying to make the driver side work, but it wouldn't. So who knows what the real issue is.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomiboy View Post
R U sitting on the floor?
Yes.

Thank you everyone for the links to dimensions.

Thomas
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomiboy View Post
I got the HT model and it is supposed to allow use of the side latches. I can't use them because the roll bar encroaches into the area. If I was to do it over again I would not get the HT model since I would have to use the bolt in brackets anyway. I have heard others used the non-HT model with a HT without issues

R U sitting on the floor?
OEM side latches, or SM style brackets?
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:10 PM   #13
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OEM won't fit I'm using SM type brackets
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:42 PM   #14
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Sorry to bring this back up, but how do you install the HD bar wrong? I have done 3 HDHC bars now (one M1 and 2 M2's). There is no wiggle room and it only goes in one way. If you have the two seatbelt bolts installed it holds the bar in place and becomes the reference for the holes you drill. It's kinda a go/no go thing.

If you leave the seatbelts in the original locations they can be a pain in the butt. One trick I found during the last install is to move the seatbelt guide top mounting bolt to the inboard bolt hole that is used for the factory tower brace. This is a different size bolt so you will have to make a new bushing or modify the existing bracket bushing to fit. This brings the seatbelt guide a little more inboard and will not pull directly on the vertical portion of the rollbar, which usually causes the sticky seatbelt problem.

I have since done it on my wife's 97 and she loves it. Her belts use to be horrible and not retract at all. I still have to modify the belts on my 91. The original modification was done on my dad's 99 because I could not mount the Boss Frog seatbelt guides with the HDHC in place using the factory seatbelt mount locations.

I hope I have managed to completely confuse you!
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relte View Post
One trick I found during the last install is to move the seatbelt guide top mounting bolt to the inboard bolt hole that is used for the factory tower brace.
That's a good idea. Is that hole present on early Miatas (those made before the factory tower braces were being installed)? Like my '90 or your '91?
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:14 PM   #16
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I have the hole on my 91. Even the 99 had the holes, I just had to cut the plastic cover to get to them. I don't know for a fact if they are in the >99's, but would guess they are since they seem to be standard on the cars I have messed with.

It's an easy check, just take the one or two screws and plastic pop rivit off from the inboard seatbelt tower cover and you will see the extra hole with threaded backing plate in it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:32 PM   #17
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I just installed my HDHCDD this last sunday and have yet to put the plastics back on. I will have to look into this because my seatbelts are not as compliant as I would like. I would also like to comment that I do not know how you can install the bar incorrectly. That was just my understanding of the issue after reading about fitment/seatbelt issues with hard dog products on multiple forums. I seem to have stated it too matter of factly in my first post. I have seen people do some pretty amazingly stupid **** in my short life so it would not suprise me if someone found a way to do it wrong.
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