HPDE: balancing safety vs. comfort at summer track days
 

I'm in my first real track season, trying to do 1-2 track days per month this summer. No racing, just HPDE and events through the various groups here (JustTrackIt, JZilla, Chin, etc). As a general rule I am very serious about safety, but I also try to balance comfort and convenience to the extent that I can. I live in Atlanta, and drive my street-legal car to and from the track. If it doesn't fit in my Miata, it doesn't come to the track. The tracks I drive (RA, AMP, Barber) are all within 2.5 hours of my house. I don't have air conditioning, and it's blistering hot and humid all summer long.

I own an SFI fire suit, but I'm not going to wear it in the heat. I tried, and the discomfort involved was distracting enough to create a different safety issue. Instead I wear all cotton: socks, underwear, white long sleeve t shirt, and jeans. My rationale is that it breathes a lot better, keeps me out of the sun, and doesn't melt to my skin in the event of a fire.

This thread got me thinking about cooling solutions:
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...wl-vest-93646/

I had some cash to burn, so I bought the Techniche hybrid cooling vest that Winding Road sells. Worn over a cotton t-shirt (rather than under a fire suit), the evaporative cooling should still work pretty well. Plus it has the chemical ice packs.

I think this is a balance that each non-competitive driver wrestles with, and I'd like to get viewpoints and best practices on how people walk that line. I'm trying to keep this a fun hobby rather than a major inconvenience.

I have it on good authority that burning to death is both uncomfortable and inconvenient.

I wear my fire suit every single time I get into a car, even a street car, and even if it's 110F outside. Every time. No excuses. There's no point in owning it if you're not going to use it.

If you're hot, get a Coolsuit or buy a more expensive suit which breathes better.

Yes, but if you follow this logic to conclusion, there is no excuse for getting on track in anything less a caged race car, with fire suppression, HANS, fixed back, etc, etc, etc. And if that was required, that would kill HPDE within a few months.


I'm perfectly comfortable going on track in jeans/long sleeve/etc, in a street car. In reality, YOU have to decide what level of risk YOU are comfortable with.

... and those are the two sides of the story that I'm trying to reconcile. Ultimately I know this comes down to a personal decision, but it's helpful to hear how others rationalize their decisions.

I rationalize it by understanding that there is risk, but in HPDE, it's INCREDIBLY low.

You're more likely to have an incident on the way to the track then while at the track.

I've done a few HPDEs in non-caged cars (namely Acamas) over the last couple of years and I felt distinctly less comfortable than I do in Rover (full W2W safety gear). To compensate in the risk profile, I would leave time on the table in certain spots in Acamas, and there are a couple of tracks I would never take that car to (WSIR and ACS).

With fire, you cannot tailor your driving or your pace to compensate for that risk. Fires can break out at any time for a wide variety of reasons. Even in a street car with 3-point belts, I would prefer to be in my fire suit regardless of how hot it is outside.

The risks are low, yes, but every single death in an HPDE environment in CA in the last decade can be directly attributed to subpar safety gear. In general, motorsport deaths have become exceptionally rare in the last 10 years or so, likely owing to availability of top-notch safety gear. The exceptions are when cars go into catch fencing at 200mph+, or when open-wheeled drivers are struck in the head by stuff, neither of which is a concern in a Miata. If given the choice, I'm going to arm myself with all the gear that's available to me.

I'm with Savington on the fire thing. It's a personal decision about how much risk you're willing to take, but once I bought a fire suit I never went out on track without it.

Most people seem to get more safety conscious the more track days they do. I can see multiple reasons for this -- the more you do the faster you're going, and the more accidents you see other people get into. Also, as people get older they tend to to start picking up additional responsibilities (spouse, kids) which weigh on your mind when you think about safety.

Also, most of the inconveniences associated with safety gear can be mitigated by throwing money at it. Nomex gear is hot, yes, but a coolshirt system will completely fix that. If you've never used one, they're magical. You're more comfortable sitting in the race car in the sun wearing Nomex than you are wearing t-shirt and shorts and sitting in the shade in the paddock. It totally transforms the experience. I know one guy who even used to wear his coolshirt system for the drive to/from the track. :)

Coolshirt systems are not terribly expensive, ~$500 for the commercial one. You can DIY it for substantially less than that if you want to put in the time -- it's basically just a cooler, a pump, a t-shirt with some tubes sewn onto it, and a bunch of fittings.

--Ian

Mine isn't caged, but if I have protective gear I don't leave it behind, especially not my suit. I'm happy with my decision to spend more on a 3 layer suit, while I've never been out in 110*, I've never found myself uncomfortable in the car. If you're not going to put on a suit, don't put on cotton, look for Nomex or better yet CarbonX shirt, gloves, etc. At least wear clothes that won't burn. White helmet and suit may help as well as they'll reflect light.

Stay really well hydrated (don't start the morning when you get to the track). Jenson Button gave a good interview on prepping for hot races that may be worth looking at for hints.

Hard top on the car? Consider reinstalling the AC, there's a reason the FIA mandates them for closed cockpit cars. Or build a very light one. Run without a top in the summer (this may or may not help). Consider some of the clear window tints to keep the interior cooler. Cool suits (and their DIY brethren) are another option. I know the transmission tunnel in my track car runs really hot, seal all the holes in the tunnel, and put reflective tape inside the tunnel (or insulation outside it).

+1 for cool shirts when the temps get up to 90+. You'll enjoy the comfortable driving long after you've forgotten about the expense. You do need to buy ice when buying gas though.

Also, the little tubes coming out of your groin area really do it for the ladies! (not)

On the subject of safety gear, always wear good gloves. Your hands get you out of the car. Sometimes I see people driving in suits but not wearing gloves. Makes no sense . . . .

+1 on fire suit all the time. It's easy to underestimate the risk of any track/competitive driving and fire is scary as shit.

I watched a car at an autocross here (admittedly a fairly high speed course, it was coned out on a race track), catch an edge of the track and roll multiple times, catch fire, and the resulting fuel fire burn through almost all large extinguishers we had on hand putting it out.

The driver and passenger were both fine (cuts and scrapes only) due only to having a full cage and safety gear, and both wearing fire suits. They got out quickly but there was definitely a point where there was both them and flames in the cockpit. Looking through the burnt out interior with charred seats where they were sitting was pretty sobering.

You know what your safety gear is good for when you're not using it?
Absolutely f'ing nothing.

That mostly depends on your car. I'm planning on adding a turbo to my Miata in about 6 months and that will put the downpipe right next to my fuel lines. I won't even consider driving this car out of the shop without adding a fire suppression system first.

I'm currently looking for a fire suit to wear at the track (HPDE's, drift, auto-x) and my plan was to DIY a cool shirt system for cooling. I'll be using instead of ice. I've tested them while camping in 90-degree heat and they last about 24 hours. I'm not good at sewing so I'll just buy a ready-made shirt and just DIY the rest. Shouldn't cost more than $150-200 all said and done.

IIRC cool shirt sells a portable unit you can carry around with you. You're probably better off taking off the driver's suit for the hour or so between sessions, though.

--Ian

Fixed.

This is completely incorrect, I have personally seen cars burst into flame going down the straights well away from anything. Broken/chafed oil or fuel lines don't need an impact.

I made a cool shirt from a t shirt and made a reservoir from a cooler and a 12v boat bilge pump. It is documented here on the forum somewhere. Advanced search my name and bilge and you'll find the post.

It is intolerably hot and humid here in the summer but the cool shirt feels like someone poured a bottle of cold water inside your shirt.

As for fire, gasoline burns but so does motor oil from a broken line, brake fluid on the exhaust manifold, ethylene glycol (if you are still using it), and all of the wiring insulation in the car. Running even a street car on the track makes things hotter and vibrate more than they ever would on the street. More so with anything modified for more power.

Don't assume when the car catches fire you will be conscious, or be alert, or right side up, or not have your legs pinned in the footwell, or not have an arm pinned between the rollbar and the ground, or have an arm or leg broken or even your back. I've seen some fires and some really shitty wrecks in HPDE. I've seen a car hook into the wall at track out on a fast sweeper and hit it hard head-on then tumble sideways twice. This is at a non-contact street car HPDE event.

I always wear the fire suit, gloves, hood, shoes, all of it. I know a guy who watched another guy burn to death pinned in car yelling for help "Don't let me burn!" I only need to talk to one guy who saw something like that to convince me.

And as an instructor, please do it right for both sides or not at all.

I used to 2 gallon cooler with a screw top lid with a gasket so when you corner it doesn't slosh out. I just saw one like it here at Lowes.

Uh, no? Believe it or not, your car doesn't know the difference between an HDPE, and any other event (or non event). WOT at 100 on the track and WOT at 100 on a highway and WOT at 100 on a back road are all the same thing.

The whole point I was trying to make was that the risks aren't lower (or higher) just because it's an HPDE.

Hopefully you see the same issue I see when these two statements are put together like this.

Maybe in a car that takes 35 seconds to hit 110. lol

I applaud your decision.

As people we try to put the bad thoughts out of our heads a lot of the time. But we have stories here all the time about wheel hub failures at speed and brake failure at speed and all of the various things that can go wrong occasionally.

I don't put on a seat belt on the way to work expecting to have an accident that day but rather preparing in case I have an accident that day. I may go thousands of days between accidents commuting but the day I need it I really, really, really need it.

In my opinion you are already ahead of the curve taking safety as seriously as you are during your first "real" season. when it comes to safety "all of it" is the right answer, however I appreciate you seeking a balance between doing events and not wanting to make your DD a dedicated track car. since you asked I'll offer my perspective. I don't see anything wrong with a balance between investment in safety equipment and expenditures on parts, maintenance, and track day fees but you really should do the same for driver and passenger sides.
I did many years in a Audi a4 with Schroth Rallye 4's on both driver and passenger side, for instructors. I totaled that car at Road America in the kink and the Schroth harness performed flawlessly, tore open the "give" seam and everyone walked away fine. I did several years in a 944T with a Racetec seat and harness on the driver side only, with a stock passengers set up, but I only took 1 passenger on track and I actually felt a little guilty after because they didn't know any better.
IMO it is not right to ask, invite, or accommodate someone into the passenger seat without the same belt and seat that you have, especially as a student seeking guidance from an instructor.
If this is going to be your hobby, sooner or later one realizes that having a car try to do duel duties becomes rather annoying. for now you are fine, especially in a stockish Miata, but as your experience increases, your mods increase, your speed increases, so should you focus on safety and please realize eventually when you have a crash you want the deck stacked your favor as much as possible. it might be minor hit or it might be a big one. HPDE is pretty safe relative to racing but still, people manage to mess up the same ways that cause issues during a race, driver fatigue and component failure as an example.
Ive been doing DEs since 2000, and I currently do not run a HANS, or a race suit, or cool suit. I have a rollbar, aluminum race seat, seat back brace, 6pt harness, harness bar, fire bottle, and helmet. my car is quick but not compared to many of the cars here. I should be wearing a balaclava, fire suit, hans, gloves, and I'm strongly considering a full cage and a race suit later this year. as others said, self preservation kicks in and that will hold back somewhat which is not necessarily a bad thing. the problem then becomes driving a fully caged car on the street is at least risky, and illegal in many places. driving to and from the track is my preferred mode of transport so back to the risk balance.

:likecat::likecat::likecat: The mortality of our sport not an easy thing to acknowledge, especially without having seen it in person at events. Kudos to you for being able to do that.

Even when I had my track rat, there was still roll bar, fixed-back FIA seats, harnesses, etc. That is the bare minimum for getting on track (I thought this was obvious).

I still think many here are being a bit extreme for the sake of being "safety conscious."

Then again, I used to track on 2 wheels, so perhaps I have a different view of risk.

I'm a 40's guy with a family, and I've had enough brushes with my own mortality that I know I need to be responsible.

My last track day, I made a really stupid novice mistake at AMP. It was the fourth session, I wasn't totally focused and I came out of the grid a little too fired up on cold tires. At turn 2, probably the safest turn on the whole track, I turn the wheel and the car keeps going straight. I turn the wheel more, back end starts to slide out. Put two tires off, tried to correct the spin, and spun back the other direction going probably 60 mph. I'm not proud to post this, but here goes... maybe it can help someone else avoid making the same mistake.



Fortunately nothing bad happened to the car or the occupants. My instructor took it in good humor- funny that 2 wheels was mentioned, he used to be a professional motorcycle racer. Different perspective on risk indeed. In the previous three sessions, I didn't do anything that concerned him in the slightest. Somehow I didn't even get a black flag, although I pitted out anyway to check the car over.

The whole day before and after that, my car was feeling great and my driving was really solid and safe; then BAM, dumb mistake and I'm basically a passenger, out of control of the situation. I learned a lot from the experience, hence the questions about safety gear in this thread.

I've got too many people counting on me to take as many risks as I once deemed acceptable.

Exactly this.

I've just got one, but in the unfortunate event that something happened to me, she would be well taken care of. I hope my replies didn't come off as flippant in that regard. I completely understand wanting to take care of those that are important. I think we should be reasonable in regards to risk. But I do completely agree, if he has the safety equipment use it.

When I still did 2 wheels, Oklahoma, July/August......I was still in draggin' jeans, full SIDI boots, gloves, back brace, leather jacket.

I use large frozen bottles and store them in a good cooler with dry ice. They'll stay frozen all weekend until needed. Pop the cap and throw it into the cool-shirt cooler. The bottle will last about 2-3hrs during an enduro.

The list of things "needed" to track a turbo Miata keeps growing and growing. SIGH!!!

Tell me about it. I just bought another harness, seat and seat cover. And I'm shopping for cool shirts.

On a positive note, the months I spent installing the first seat should make installing the second seat much easier.

I really appreciate that you've approached this with some consideration rather than seeking validation for a decision you've already made.

This got me thinking about risk in the general sense.

When I worked in the engineering/R&D world, we did Failure Mode Effects Analysis (FMEA) for all products in development. The idea is that risk takes on different forms, and you need to consider all of the forms to avoid tricking yourself into complacency. For each failure mode, we would rank the following on a scale from 1-10:

- Severity. How bad the outcome is
- Occurrence. How likely the failure is to occur
- Detectability. How easily you can prevent the failure before the bad stuff happens

You then multiply the numbers to get the RPN (risk priority number). High is bad.

If your failure mode was "vehicle fire on track", it would go something like this:
Severity- 10. You die or are permanently maimed. There's really nothing more severe.
Occurrence- 4. They're pretty unlikely, but I've already seen one at a track day, so I'm guessing maybe 1 in 2000 vehicles.
Detectability- 10. Caused by random events (crashes) or sporadic component failures outside of design parameters.

So even though a vehicle fire is unlikely, it would have a high RPN of 400, and be one of the most important failures to mitigate. In this case, with a fire suit.

By comparison, "lose keys".
Severity- 2. Worst case, you need to bum a ride home.
Occurrence- 4. I lose them sometimes, what can I say.
Detectability- 10. I don't know when I'm going to lose them, sometimes I just do.

So the RPN is 80. I mitigate it by leaving the damned keys in the ignition at the track.

I'm sure that professional race teams have done FMEA for this stuff. I would love to see it, it would really help people who are learning the sport.

I think that's overstating the case. IME, significant fires at track days (that is, the kind where fire suits would be relevant) are rare. In something 50-75 track days (I long ago lost count of how many I've been to), I haven't seen one yet. I have seen a few relatively minor fires -- a grass fire started by someone who went off track into dry weeds, a couple of oil leaks onto headers, that kind of stuff. I'm not trying to diminish the significance of those fires, but they offer a lot of warning of what's going on and give you time to grab an extinguisher or run away and call the professionals.

The kinds of fires where a fire suit is relevant are fast and hot, basically those where gasoline is getting sprayed onto an exhaust manifold or the like. The fire suit gives you less than 20 seconds of protection, it's basically designed so that if the car bursts into flames while out on the track it gives you enough time to stop the car and get the fuck out (or if you crash, the car catches fire, and you are both conscious and sufficiently uninjured to get out on your own). A fire bottle will extend that time by a little bit more. See Charles Espenlaub's writeup on GRM here: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...-and-survived/

Modern OEM designs are, in general, really good at preventing cars from bursting into flames. Unmolested OEM fuel lines in good repair rarely fail without being damaged in an accident, and OEM ECUs usually have provisions for automatically shutting off the fuel pump in those sorts of situations. Change this to a fuel system built out of generic aftermarket parts, installed by an amateur mechanic in his home garage, using an aftermarket ECU without those same crash provisions and it changes the balance.

Your average track day car is a lightly modified street car with an OEM fuel system. In such a car I'm not too worried about fire, and if that's the kind of car I was driving I probably wouldn't buy a fire suit (although I'd wear one if I already owned it). My car, OTOH, is more of the latter, thus the fire suit and AFFF fire system that I have installed.

--Ian

If my car burned down as often as I lost my keys, I'd just stop racing and become a firefighter to save on my phone bill

I'd have burned 12 of my cars to the ground. This week!

Took this guy forever to get out-



We didn't even talk about this-

The second to the last one is one of our forum bros here, bedheadben.

And the last one you can clearly see the driver is knocked unconscious and his arm becomes pinned beneath the roll bar.

Here's the one I was originally looking for and didn't have time to find it-




And this is one that makes me claustrophobic as hell-

Update. I got the Techniche cooling vest in from Amazon. Seemed very nice, except that I ordered an XXL, and they sent me a Medium. It was reminiscent of the Chris Farley "fat man in a tiny jacket" skit in Tommy Boy. I returned it. Rather than replacing it in the correct size, I'm going to put the money towards getting the passenger side safety up to par. They say that suffering builds character, so I'm going to suck it up and sweat my balls off in the fire suit until I can buy (or build) a coolshirt system.

When I get the Amazon refund, I'll order another Kirkey seat and cover for the passenger side. I already have a Kirkey back brace and roll bar clamps that I ordered but didn't use for my drivers' side seat install. With the experience I gained on the driver side seat, I should be able to fab up a mounting bracket pretty quickly. Cutting and welding in the summer heat will be good practice for track days. I'm toying with putting the passenger seat on stock sliders.

I also ordered a brand new harness from Discovery Parts; it's one of the ones that was on clearance because it's past it's date, but it should be just fine for DE, right?

Speaking of risk . . . read an article (on the internet -- must be true) that discussed the risk of fire vs. other risks we take on track. Our safety equipment is directed towards impact restraint, providing "room to live" and buying time in a fire. Yet, according to this article, the main killer of portly, gentleman racers is heart issues from exertion/dehydration/heat.

So, is the coolshirt safety equipment? Perhaps. If you are going to run without one, then spend time on physical fitness and heat acclimatization (which you should be doing anyway -- it will improve your driving).

^ well, at least that's one thing that I'm ahead of the curve on. I run when I can, and I'm a life-long ice hockey player that still plays a couple times a week. If I'm going to have a heart attack, it will probably be while I'm playing hockey. So I've got that going for me.

Come to think of it, I'm going to a party on Thursday for a guy that I played hockey with. Last month he got tripped up, went head-first into the boards and had a severe neck contusion. Had an ambulance ride, and couldn't feel or move his arms or legs. For the first day in the hospital, they weren't sure whether he was going to be a quadriplegic or not. Fortunately it's looking like he'll make a full recovery, although his playing days are over. Maybe driving is actually the safer of my two hobbies.

BTW, Techniche says to order their vests two sizes larger; apparently their XXL fits a standard L. Their M was about big enough for me to wrap around one leg.

FYI there are better vests out there than the Techniche.

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...wl-vest-93646/

Yes, that's the same thread that I linked to in the OP. Are you still happy with the GlacierTek? How long does it take the ice packs to freeze? Could you just lay them in the bottom of an iced cooler?

Derp. My bad. Yeah, it was still working great last time I used it last year. I'm getting ready to use it this weekend for the first time this year. From memory... I can partially recharge them in about 30 minutes in the cooler at the track. Not sure how long a full recharge takes since I just leave them in the freezer or cooler over night. I usually just flatten the ice at the top of the cooler and lay them on the top, but you could put them on the bottom below the ice too.

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/diy-cool-shirt-system-73268/
DIY Cool Shirt

This thread has been a kick in the pants to get my safety stuff squared away. I will admit, ive been skimping big time with how fast my car is now and all the stuff Ive touched. Fire suit is next on the to-buy list.

After watching that roll over, I'm wondering if I should start looking into something to keep my limbs inside the vehicle as well as a fire suit. I've already got gloves, FIA seat, HANS, and a 6 point harness. I still need a passenger harness, but none of my friends have HANS devices so I've been slacking. That crash really showed why wheel to wheel typically requires something to keep your limbs inside the vehicle, be it nets or arm restraints.

And the hardtop gives us a false sense of security.

I don't leave pit lane w/o arm restraints.
It's the cheapest piece of safety equipment that can save you from losing an arm.
If you get a racing suit, they can be stitched in to make them even easier to use.

When I was on my Lemons team last fall, I bought a used NASCAR suit from raceimage.com. I didn't know anything about race suits, I just wanted one that passed tech and wasn't too expensive.

Pro's: Cheap. Good quality Simpson three layer, two piece suit. They had the exact size that I needed so fit is good. It's white, so reflects the sun OK.

Con's: it doesn't breathe. At all. I might as well have a plastic garbage bag on. It is a NASCAR official's suit, with "OFFICIAL" across the front and down the legs, all sort of logos, etc. If you're self-conscious about being the only guy wearing a fire suit at the HPDE event, this is not the suit for you. I probably look like a huge douche in it, not that I care. That much. Let's face it, we all care a little bit. Although not that much because we all drive Miatas.

Summary: If I were to do it again, I would save and spend the big money required for a nice, breathable suit (if such a thing exists) that doesn't look like a kids' Halloween costume.

A lot of the hpde guys here wear fire suits. It's not unusual and you don't stand out wearing one. I think most of the TT guys do too. Certainly more than half.