Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

I was amazed at how many top level TT drivers at GridLife South weren't wearing a fire suit last year.

Schroedinger

The last track day I did (not technically HPDE, it wasn't through NASA) I literally did not see one fire suit the whole day. This was with a well established, well-run group with lots of advanced drivers and instructors. Of the various events I've attended, the safest was probably the actual HPDE, where maybe 25% of the participants had suits on. AFAIK, every one of those guys was class racing. I certainly didn't see any of them driving in my group; in fact, I saw one guy take his suit off to instruct a guy in my group.

I bring it up because I think this is an important part of the novice psychology in any sport or hobby. Nobody wants to be the guy who's learning to ski, and shows up at the resort with $10k worth of brand new gear, neon pink Arc'teryx jacket and aero helmet. People see that guy tumbling down the slopes and think "poser". The guy in the jeans and sunglasses though, they think "he's trying hard with what he's got." It sounds dumb, but I think it's important for people new to the sport. If you suck at stuff, you don't want to bring attention to yourself.

But the fact that I think we novices need to reconcile is that driving on a track is different from other sports or hobbies. The consequences of failure are much greater. The ability to control the outcomes is much less. The learning curve is much longer. When you're just starting I don't think you really understand these things, even when you hear other people say them. The idea that "I already know how to drive a car" is pervasive. Sadly, it only becomes reality when you do or see bad things at the track.

Joker

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the nightmares....

icantlearn

Ive been looking at the sparco RS-7. I tried one on at my local race shop and I love it. Very breathable and light.
https://store.windingroad.com/sparco...uit-p2626.aspx

UrbanSoot

iTrader: (24)

I've been looking at suits for the past few weeks and I can't find a single piece suit that will fit me. I'm 5' 11", 140lbs, waist size 30. Is 2-piece my only hope?

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I've had both one piece and two piece and either one is fine. My first suit was a new one that was considered a blemish and was on clearance. I bought a few others used when they came up available on racing sites. Consequently I've got spare helmets and spare shoes and spare gloves and spare suits. Some of them are lighter than others and some of them breathe better than others but even the heaviest one is better than a skin graft.

I've seen plenty of complete novices wreck and plenty of experienced hpde and Racers wreck in single car accidents. Frankly the only difference between the novice Wrecking and the more experienced hpde participant wrecking is typically the speed at which they wreck. We all need the gear and I've never seen anybody ridiculed for wearing it. I've never heard anybody make a jab about some complete novice that showed up with a fire suit and gloves. To me it tells me he's serious about being safe.

Joker

iTrader: (1)

Guess I should start looking into this stuff as well. What about fire systems? Anyone have any experience with those? I imagine being unconscious during a crash is probable, and a suppression system might prove valuable.

codrus

Mine is (I think) an RS-9, or the equivalent one from a few years ago (they change the model numbers around pretty frequently). It's more money, same ratings, but lighter weight, even more breathable, and more comfortable. Did you go up to Wine Country Motorsports at Sears Point? They have the best selection around locally, IMHO.

UrbanSoot: You really want a one-piece suit. Two-piece suits are primarily intended for pit crews, etc. Note that suits are designed to fit properly when you're sitting in a race seat, not when you're standing up and walking around. Hopefully whatever shop you're trying them on at has a race seat that you can sit in while wearing it.

As far as track days go, the ones I go I typically see 5-10 people wearing their suits. Some people wear them the whole track day, others will change every time they get in/out of the car. Doing that helps keep wear & grease off them, which is a good idea, but it's kind of a pain in the butt (plus it's hot). The only people I've seen being made fun of for their driving suits are the guys who show up driving a Ferrari and wearing a red nomex suit covered in prancing horses and otherwise replicating the F1 suit sponsor logos.

--Ian

UrbanSoot

iTrader: (24)

Most suppression systems require manual engagement. It's pretty simple though: some lines, nozzles, and a bottle. Most systems I've seen have nozzles in the engine bay and footwell.

Is it a good idea to point a fire suppression nozzle at your face? Or is it just going to handicap you further by temporarily blinding you?

What extinguisher technologies are superior? I'm assuming you can't use a "dry" system with lines, is that correct?

codrus

As far as fire suppression systems go, I have a basic $400 system in my car. It's AFFF (foam), has a tank in the trunk with a CO2 cartridge and four sprayer nozzles. One on the filler neck, one on the fuel rail, and one for each of the two seats. Full race cars usually just have one seat sprayer, but for a car with a passenger seat it makes sense to do both. AFFF is much cheaper than halon, especially when it comes time to refill the system. If you're using E85, you'll need an "alcohol resistant" system (AFFF-AR).

Mine is a manual-only system, it's got a handle mounted on the tunnel that pops the CO2 cartridge and dumps the foam. They make systems with automatic deployment, but that costs quite a bit more.

--Ian

UrbanSoot

iTrader: (24)

Where are your seat nozzles mounted and pointed?

Erat

iTrader: (5)

I have really enjoyed reading through this thread. This comment here tickled me a bit.

With racing the hydroplane, we have different rules and a very wide margin of rules per class. My boat happens to be open cockpit and i have no air system, this is completely compliant and within the current rules. Which means, if i go over i have to not be knocked out, get my harness off, wheel off, and slip out from under the boat all while holding my breath. This is after being in an accident at around 100mph. But boat racing is dangerous, very dangerous, that's one reason i do it. It's the same reason people base jump and swim with sharks. I should probably make my cell completely closed and get an air system. But i'm comfortable and have accepted the risk of not doing so.

I honestly do not think you should be looking to anyone else for advice for what you should or shouldn't do, you should know what you are comfortable with. But that's just me and my two cents.

codrus

Aluminum thing at the top of the photo, poking out of the bolt access hole in the trim. This is the passenger side, there's one on the driver side the same.



--Ian

Dietcoke

Witnessed this one firsthand. Video is highly worth your watch. While it happened in the drag world, a race car on fire is a race car on fire.

Side note, this is why visor down when racing has become a pet peeve of mine, even in a windshielded car.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

For those who don't know, when he says "five/ten/twenty" in reference to his gear, he's referring to SFI 3.2A/5, 3.2A/10, 3.2A/20. It's driver suit fire resistance ratings.

3.2A/1 suit protects against 2nd degree burns for 3 seconds. This is a joke
3.2A/3 protects you against 2nd degree burns for 7 seconds.
3.2A/5 protects you for 10 seconds. Most road race suits are 3.2A/5
3.2A/10 protects you for 19 seconds
3.2A/15 protects you for 30 seconds
3.2A/20 protects you for 40 seconds

I have looked for 3.2A/10 road race gear in the past and wasn't able to find any, which bugs me a little. I would upgrade tomorrow if I could.

k24madness

iTrader: (6)

Glad to see this conversation taking place. It's easy to overlook the need when we drive around in street clothes in the same car we track on weekends.

That horrible video above is a reminder of the need for a properly sealed "firewall". It may not help with what happened there but I bet most here would see all kinds of safety fire breaches when checked.

I have spend a LOT of time making my track car faster. It's high time I spent more effort making it safer. I can think of a few things that spook me right off the top of my head. Some of my gear should be retired too. Having the fuel cell beside me in the passengers floor means I should be taking maximum safety precautions.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

All these videos always get me paranoid as hell!! I've made it a habit to suit up every session and I just kind of deal with the heat. If I was in better shape I could deal with the heat better than I do now or the lazy way out....cool suite!! Full fire suppression system is on my short list of next mods to complete since I recently finished up my cage.

I might be going against the grain here, but as an instructor I'm ok with a student having harness/HNRS/seat and the passenger seat having oem 3pt/airbag/oem seat I explain to the student the safety talk of not "sending it" every single corner while I'm instructing. I have never had a student argue with me on this, in fact they have sometimes brought it up before I get to it. That being said, I greatly appreciate (and prefer) if I have the same safety setup as the driver.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

***I try to inspect the installation of aftermarket harnesses when possible. The exception was when I was thrown into doing check rides for promotions at the last moments.

gtred

This is great safety discussion.

I'm getting older. I'm finding it difficult to get in/out of the roll cage with my neck restraint on. I have to first unbuckle my helmet to allow my neck to bend down enough....not the best situation if you're on fire. Last year I decided to withdraw from racing with SCCA because they required a HANS or similar neck restraint device while Conference racing doesn't. (not sure about NASA)

I had to chuckle to myself when in a previous post there was a discussion of the low probability of a fire in a HPDE setting ...it brought up some fun memories.

While risk management is always on a racer's mind, the statistics/probability of fire mean very little if it turns out to be you who catches fire.

I have seen several trackday car fires, mostly involving the car driving agricltural and then catching the grass on fire. I caught a race car on fire once... it even blew the fuel tank while I was in it! Worse yet, it wasn't even my car; it was my buddy's car. The engine blew at the end of the straight. The car still had it's OEM plastic fuel lines. The hole in the block thru oil onto the header; which caught fire ...and GM thought it wise to route the fuel line right above the Camaro's exhaust header. The line melted thru, spewing fuel out at 90# pressure. As the car was still moving at top speed, and apparently still had oil pressure, the fuel pump didn't kill. The result was a line of fire burning the track... following me! I ducked into the first turn worker station that had a fire extinguisher; took a big breath as I stopped as the fire had now caught me; hit the belts and got out quick.

UrbanSoot

iTrader: (24)

I was getting an alignment done at Speed Gallery (a well-known local Porsche shop) yesterday and had a chance to check out a bunch of high-end Porsche race cars. Every single one of them had a 5lb fire suppression system and most of them had an additional hand-held fire extinguisher. The shop owner explained that it's wise to have both options in case you only have a small, manageable fire, or if someone else's car is on fire.

Needless to say, I've got a handheld fire extinguisher mounted in my car already and I'm shopping for a decent 5lb fire suppression system and a fire resistant outfit (suit, shoes, head sock, gloves, underwear, socks).

I've personally seen multiple fires at HPDEs as well as auto-x. Some of them even happened while the cars weren't even on the track. **** happens!