I need new track pads. what should I get?
 

I used porterfield in the rear and hawk up front but I dont remember which ones. this combination would start to fade so I need to go up a level.


carbotech? cobalt friction? what should I try?

DTC-60.

If you're fading DTC-60s, you need bigger brakes.

dt-60 is a pretty aggressive pad for a miata and I'm worried about lock up with suck a strong pad. I have a goodwin racing 4 corner big brake kit

The 60s are awesome, and they're what I use on everything (stock brakes, BBK, N/A, turbo, etc).

Are your rotors slotted? That can change your decision. DT-60/70's are not recommended for slotted rotors, nor are anything from Carbotech. I run EBC Yellow's on my TT/Hillclimb car, but may not be on the brakes as hard as some of you guys.

I have been running cobalt friction XR2s F and XR3s R on 949 11" Wilwoods F & Sport R and can't imagine wanting anything more. The modulation is fantastic and stopping power is equivalent to a friends GT3 with PCCB's. The only beef I have with the CF pads is availability. It took 4 weeks to receive my fronts and 6 weeks for the rears. If one of the reputable Miata tuners starts carrying these things they will become the new hot pad to have.

After 5 track days they still look new with no detectable rotor wear. Color me impressed!

Just about any pad listed in this thread is great. I prefer the carbotechs, but you will find more people running DTCs here.

-If you run 205 R comps/Hoosiers or bigger, then you will do just fine with the DTCs/Carbotechs.
-If you are running 225 or bigger street tires, you will also be fine with carbotech XP10s (and probably the DTC-60s).
-If you are still learning and like to run a 205 street tire like me, I would suggest you stay at XP8 or equivalent friction pads.

(this is all in reference to lock up/modulation btw)

Same here, love the feel and it can take the heat.

well I can tell you one thing, I wont be buying anything from EBC. my first race pad in 2000 about one session.

Anyone tried Raybestos ST43 compound? I've seen a bunch of SCCA/Honda roadracers swearing by it for a couple years now and finally just ordered a set. Anxious to try them. I've always run Carbotechs because I started on them and have never found a reason to complain about them. Driven a couple cars with Hawks (HT10 I think) and was never a fan.

Without knowing what you drove I would not give up on hawk. The hawk blues & HT10s are completely different than the DTCs. If I did not have such great results with Cobalts I would be trying the DTC 60s next.

I've got all of one track day on my new set of XP10s but so far I'm happy. Solved my pad fade problem, good feel/modulation and little noise on the street (so far). It's not my DD but I drive it on the street. I'll have a new set of R888s on for Miatas at MRLS so I'll be stopping like I have thrust reversers (maybe).

How does the initial bite of the DTC compare to the blue/HT10? That was my biggest complaint about all of the hawk pads I've ever driven on. Too much initial bite and therefore difficult to modulate in spots where you just want a small grab of the brake. Carbotech: press the pedal a little=slow down a little, press the pedal a lot= slow down a lot. :party:

Just to be clear, OP wasn't the one who said he was running DTC-60s, the 2nd poster was suggesting it. I'm betting OP is currently running HP+ or HPS.

I've heard amazing things about Cobalts, but have yet to try them. I'm actually in the same boat. Hawk HP+ fronts with 11" wilwoods, porterfield in the back. I'm sure I'll start fading the fronts pretty soon.

Tried the ST43s a few years ago. Lots of rotor wear and the dust is highly corrosive.

The HT10 is nothing like a DTC60 - the DTCs are much easier to modulate. I never feel like the DTC60s are too grabby anywhere.

Switching from Carbotech to Cobalt XR2/4 combination right now. Will report back in a couple weeks after my first time out on them.

+1 about availability. Rears shipped in a couple weeks, fronts took 2 months...

Although, I think the Spec Miata setup (XR3/5) is typically stocked by distributors more often.

This is conjecture, but I'm fairly sure that Hawk is going to be phasing out the HT-10 in favor of the DTC-60; i.e. - DTC-60 is going to be the superseded pad for the HT-10.

And if you're worried about accidentally locking-up for a split second, think about the alternative... overheating the pads and having no brakes.

Why are you worrying about locking up the rears? Do you have a Wilwood prop valve? If not, might be a good upgrade. Makes a world of difference in braking bias in seconds. Can tune out any balance issues.

no it does not work like that. it could in some cases but just because it works he higher temp does not automatically mean it will be more easy to lock up.


I would rather deal with a little fade then destroy a set of race tires when they get flat spotted down to the cord.


and who said anything about locking up the rears? I'm talking about locking up in general, but more concerned with locking up the front obviously.

thinK I might give the DTC 60 a try, can I drive these pads to and from the tracK or are they going to kill my rotors?

I wouldn't DD them, but you can get them back and forth to the track without a problem.

Let's take a look...

And I suggested that you can probably live with learning to modulate new pads because somebody in the OP said something, let me see here...

Stop being such a fucking pussy.

Fuuuuuck. Corrosive pad dust pisses me off more than just about anything race car related. Might offload these while they're still new and try the DTC60 instead.

yeah this comes from a guy that could not handle a turbo. Ive seen your in car video, you got no right to make fun of anyone for anything.

Lol no really stop being a pussy. Ive been running DTC60s on the street for months (too lazy to switch for the track/street). I dont DD the car

Maybe you should loosen up the strap on you pussy and learn to brake a car with high friction pads like a man, then come back and talk shit. You can look to my vids for pointers.

Curly, The HP+ pads faded as soon as I added the turbo. I ended up with Hawk Blue because I was getting them used from a spec Miata garage that was often changing them before they were at 50%. Did I mention that my goal is to have as much fun as I can as cheaply as I can? I didn't have any problem with fade until I turned up the boost a little more. And they didn't actually fade much, just slightly longer stopping distances and rotor discoloration/micro-cracking. I've gone from 10in to 11in rotors now and the feel has improved in my one track day since, but the real test will be the next time I go to Sebring because it is tough on brakes.

I occasionally drive on the street with the Blues. They stop fine cold, dust less than HP+, and squeak some. They are also easy to modulate. That said, I'm looking forward to trying DTC60s one day to see how they differ.

HP+ are the more aggressive ones, right? I can never remember. They've been great to me, I haven't been tracking them enough to tell you honestly. But with cooling ducts and my light car, I hope they'll survive the two heavy braking zones at my local track. The other local track I visit (ORP) is very easy on brakes. I'm sure some cobalts are in my future though.

Blues are more aggressive.

HPS
HP+
Blacks
Blues
etc.

How's the rotor wear/dust? Any hard-to-remove deposits on the wheels after rain, for instance?

DTC-60s are not at all hard to modulate, guys. BTDT :)

They do dust a lot. I cant really comment much on rotor wear, I usually replace them with the pads but there is a tiny lip on them currently. There are some hard to remove deposits but my wheels are black so I dont make much of an effort to clean them

Look up Adrenaline Racing. Full service race garage in Oregon that usually stocks a large selection of Cobalt Friction. ~20% of their business is strictly Miata street/track.

503 697 3311

Ask for Don or Eddie. Tell them Nile sent you.

Cobalt is all I use. No reason to look elsewhere at the moment.

That's who I went through. Don was great to work with but they don't stock what I need.

+1 to reply above. Dealt with Don in the whole process. Ordered during a GB, took a few weeks for the rears and had a delay on the fronts. 2 months later I got them.

Not a knock on Don or Adrenaline Racing but just didn't work out the way I thought it was going to. Just a product of a very niche industry.

Dammit! Why can't we get vendors to stock pads for our gay cars with oversized non-stock brakes ?? :party:

They do just not Cobalts. 949 has a great inventory of Carbotech and Trackspeed has lots of Hawks.

If these Cobalts caught on maybe one of the better vendors (hint Trackspeed or 949) may be willing to fork out the money needed to stock em. Honestly it does not make great business sense given the margins to have so much money tied up in brake pads. When you consider the various fitments and compounds that's a ton of money.

Ah good to hear. They usually stock what I need XR3/5 SM optimized. Occasionally I've had to wait a few weeks for a set but I just try to plan ahead for when I'll need pads.

Glad to see some more folks in the Miata community giving Cobalt Friction a try.

My big issue with the Cobalts is that they are expensive. They would have to be dramatically better than the Hawks we currently use/sell to justify the additional cost.

If they did you'd think I'd have mine by now, been almost a month. Two emails, no replies, maybe I should have purchased from Sav.

im with you on that one... they are supposedly a reputable company, but i have had 3 pads break off the back plate.... 2 on the track, and one street driving. maybe i just brake hard as shit... lol

It's gonna take someone like you that logs in lots of track days with DTC's to evaluate initial bite, modulation, life and rotor wear on the Cobalts. The last one may not be a big issue for you but customers with expensive rotors like Goodwin V4 will want that info.

On the other hand I am willing to try the DTC 60 the next time around. Based on my current wear and having another set of front XR2's on hand that wont happen till at least next year.

just ordered a set of the dtc 60, they are pretty inexpensive so why not try them. Ive been pleased with hawk race pads on other track cars but I always changed the pads at the track and I'm trying to not do that for now, since I'm only running NT01 tires.


the carbotech and the colbalts are not that expensive, just way more expensive than the hawk. you want expensive pads go check out the padgids, around 300 bucks.


thanks for all the helpful info, I post up my opinions in a few weeks.

Emilio emailed... all is right with the world. Carry on...

well whats the deal with the pads? I was thinking about ordering a set just for comparison but I'm not going to bother if it is going to take months to get them

^Beginning of the season rush?

When I ordered mine June-ish last year my XP10/8 combo and rotors showed up the next week.

I've been very happy with my limited time on them (3 day - 15 sessions).

So from my rough numbers the Cobalt setup I just bought runs about $100 more total than the equivalent DTC-60's all around. This is on 1.8 Non-Sport brakes. Going to try out the DTC's on the next round and compare all three discussed, have ran Carbotech's previoius.

Also interested to see how the life of the pad compares between the DTC/XR/XP.

I have EBC yellows on the front of 3 cars and haven't had an issue. The TA has been a weekend driver with EBC yellows for about 5 years.

I've run pfc97 and dtc 60, this is on stock 1.6 brakes so they probably overheat. but between the two, I like the pfc more. personal preference, I liked the bite and modulation more.

I have a set of xp12 for the next track day to try out

Was a communication mixup between 949 and CT... Emilio fixed it and refunded my shipping due to the wait which was quite nice of him.

You shouldn't have an issue.

DTC-60s!

When using stock calipers, any difference in pad taper between the different brands/compounds? I was getting some taper on the XP10's but not too bad.

I was also getting pad taper on the stock front calipers. I also used Carbotech XP10s. It is my understanding that pad taper is common when you abuse the stock calipers regardless of which pads are used.

I would imagine that pad taper, which is due to caliper flex, would be less on a high torque pad that required less pedal effort. Low torque pads would require significantly more pressure to slow the car and would be more likely to flex the caliper.

I wonder if heat has a significant effect on this though.

Bingo

What an awesome segue in to my question:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1367097136

Factory NA8 calipers, Centric rotors, Carbotech AX6 pads, TSE ducting, RBF600 fluid.

I've done a number of "fast autocross / mini road course" events and four days at Roebling on these pads and rotors. I noticed some heat spots on the rotors after the most recent track day and decided to pull the pads out to measure. Zero cracks in the rotors, just the spotting.

Pad thickness (not including the 5mm backing) for the left front corner

<-- Front of car
Below is a picture of the outer pad for the same left front corner, with the pad thickness measurements overlaid.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1367097136


That leads me to the question of whether to buy some DTC-60s and new rotors or to just step up to something like the 949 Wilwood 11" kit (or Relte's Mini / Wilwood setup)?

TSE Big Boy Pants Brake kit is not an option. :dealwithit:

Neg props.