ITT we discuss turbo cranes (again)
12-11-2014, 01:26 PM
#21
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I talked to JKav a good while back about bracing. If I remember correctly he was not a huge fan of cranes. Hew much preferred to use a mount that attaches to the engine block and goes up to the bottom of the turbo. I asked him for some pictures of how he was going to do it, but I never received them.
TiAL Sport Turbine Housing And Wastegate - 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata Long-Term Road Test
This is similar to a previous iteration JKav had fabricated using all Burn$ components (including a Burn$ collector) in the early 2000's. IIRC this was featured in Sport Compact Car circa early 2004 on JKav's black miata. This was later sold to Jon (dv/dt on various forums) with a laguna blue miata. Tis manifold was a work of art. Unfortunately a previous hard drive took a dump and I lost all the pics.
Last edited by M2Ken; 12-11-2014 at 01:50 PM. Reason: remove duplicate information
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12-11-2014, 03:29 PM
#22
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But it also increases the force of the exhaust swinging back and forth on the on the manifold since it basically turns the whole exhaust into a lever with a pivot. The flex pipe between the brace and the rest of the exhaust only gets you some relief of this. And also making a brace for this that doesnt break on a 3" exhaust is kind of hard.
There's an older thread on the subject where I had the idea to also hard mount the exhaust to the middle or back of the PPF to completely get rid of the effect and to more or less let the whole exhaust move with the engine but no one was buying it at the time. It pretty much operates under the assumption that without miss matched mount stiffnesses (IE engine and diff mounts are allow around the same amount of flex) that the PPF doesnt get twisted all that much while driving.
There's an older thread on the subject where I had the idea to also hard mount the exhaust to the middle or back of the PPF to completely get rid of the effect and to more or less let the whole exhaust move with the engine but no one was buying it at the time. It pretty much operates under the assumption that without miss matched mount stiffnesses (IE engine and diff mounts are allow around the same amount of flex) that the PPF doesnt get twisted all that much while driving.
With a downpipe brace the leverage is 2/3rds of the exhaust to 1/3rd and the force on the turbo studs is attempting to shear them.
A bracestrong enough is easy, u bolt exhaust clamp and 3x15mm mild steel flatbar mounted on a u bolt bolt and a lower gearbox bolt. It goes through a 90 degree rotation allowing a little expansion but eliminates most of the swinging force. Of course a flex pipe goes behind the brace.
Whether the engine and diff mounts are of equal stiffness doesn't change the fact that the engine and diff rotate in opposite directions.
Dann.
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12-11-2014, 03:51 PM
#24
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Doesn't work how?
I've tried lots of **** and the u bolt is the only thing this side of sleeving the exhaust to double it's wall thickness then using angle. Everything else fatigues the exhaust that I've tried.
I've tried lots of **** and the u bolt is the only thing this side of sleeving the exhaust to double it's wall thickness then using angle. Everything else fatigues the exhaust that I've tried.
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12-11-2014, 03:54 PM
#26
With just a single brace I'm worried about the exhaust swinging. With the additional brace on the ppf I'd be worried about the ppf twisting.
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12-11-2014, 04:17 PM
#29
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A bracestrong enough is easy, u bolt exhaust clamp and 3x15mm mild steel flatbar mounted on a u bolt bolt and a lower gearbox bolt. It goes through a 90 degree rotation allowing a little expansion but eliminates most of the swinging force. Of course a flex pipe goes behind the brace.
I use a similar clamp made from 5mm x 25mm bar attached to the bottom gear box bolt.
Some times I extend it and fit 2 clamps for track use cars. This type of bracket provides support and dampening but still allows for some movement so nothing gets sheared.
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12-11-2014, 07:22 PM
#30
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I've also considered bottom bracing
Interesting idea. More to the point, what about the mount FM uses for their exhaust systems, connecting the downpipe to the transmission?
I've been thinking of trying to come up with something similar for my ARTech stuff, but using one of the big wide band style clamps to spread out the load:
Bottom brace on the manifold/turbo does sound ideal. Plenty of bolt holes on the side of the engine block to accomplish this.
Edit: Yeah, what sturovo said
There's an older thread on the subject where I had the idea to also hard mount the exhaust to the middle or back of the PPF to completely get rid of the effect and to more or less let the whole exhaust move with the engine but no one was buying it at the time. It pretty much operates under the assumption that without miss matched mount stiffnesses (IE engine and diff mounts are allow around the same amount of flex) that the PPF doesnt get twisted all that much while driving.
I've been thinking of trying to come up with something similar for my ARTech stuff, but using one of the big wide band style clamps to spread out the load:
Bottom brace on the manifold/turbo does sound ideal. Plenty of bolt holes on the side of the engine block to accomplish this.
Edit: Yeah, what sturovo said
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12-11-2014, 09:23 PM
#32
Which way does your manifold expand? I did temperature fea on my manifold to so I know mine basically tries to tuck the manifold in closer to the engine when it gets hot and twists is a little clockwise when looking at it straight down. So any mount with 2 rod ends on either end would give enough freedom for my setup.
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12-11-2014, 10:03 PM
#33
Related to the original topic, the MSM turbo has a nicely designed brace integrated into the motor mount. It seems to provide excellent support although there is less inertia on the little OEM turbo on the factory log manifold than there is on a big turbo on a ram horn tubular.
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