ITT we will discuss swirl pots galore!!!
 

I'm thinking of getting this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1342926017

1. Its inexpensive
2. I don't like the way my coolant gauge was behaving (hot cold, hot cold...)
3. It's only $100 and could go a long way to keeping the head cooler

Questions:

1. Should I mount it as high as possible?
2. Which side is up? I thought the air-bleeder came out the top, making me think this picture shows the piece upside-down.
3. Can I run it under the intake plenum?
4. Does the bleeder always stay open?
5. Where does the bleeder feed? (I'm guessing over-flow)

I'm thinking about taking the car to Abe and having him make hard-pipes from the rear Kia water-neck, welded to the swirl pot on both sides, then welded out to an "S" shaped rubber hose that goes into the radiator.

Please, discuss.

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Okay, here is my current reroute set-up which I believe puts air in the system:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1339724385
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1342928919
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...88807741_n.jpg
I just bought the gear to make it do this:
http://revlimiter.net/blog/wp-conten...10-590x410.jpg
Where should I put the swirl pot on which set-up? If we're trying to mount it high, I'll keep the current set-up. and remove that aluminum piece between hoses and replace with the swirl-pot...but will it work?

I should also note that it's very tight back there with electrical grounds, vacuum hose, SS fuel hose, and that coolant pipe.

What does a swirl pot do and how does it work?

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The swirl pot thing is intriguing. It seems like bleeding the cooling system would be easy as hell. If some one could make one that works and could mount inline with a coolant reroute that'd be awesome. Mount it to the side of the intake mani so that it moves with the motor movement and doesn't flex the hose much. After a little googling I like the ones with the rad cap, in my mind it would maintain system pressure. The tank ones with just lines I can't figure how they keep pressure in the system. Also they seem to only pick up coolant from little lines. Sorta half ass. The ones using 1.25 in/out and a rad cap with a bleed line to overflow tank look good and I can see how they function. After some searching it also seems that americans don't use these much. 95% of the ones I found are in the UK or Europe.

You need a rad cap one or at least to close the bleeder valve. For it to work right it needs to be the highest thing in the coolant system.

If using a swirltank like the one in the OP, you'll need an expansion tank with a rad cap. This thank will be the highest point in the system. The expansion tank will be connected to the overflow tank. Several points in the system is usualy connected to the expansion tank to help bleed the system. Take care that no points betwen the waterpump and thermostat/restrictor is connected to the expansion tank.

Tommy

It's early, so here are my semi-coherent, semi-randomized thoughts. ;)

First off, a sealed coolant system can not 'add air into the system'. If you have air entering, then you have other problems that need to be addressed. I think your problem is that you are unable to bleed out all of the air from you coolant system, based on this picture:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1342928919

It looks like the highest point of your cooling system is the metal hose coupler at the back of the head. My suspicion is that air gets trapped in that section, as it would be extremely difficult to fully bleed that part out.

What I'm thinking is you could put a tap in this section of pipe -- maybe something like an exhaust bung, and when bleeding the cooling system, crack the bung cap so air can escape. You could possibly also fill from the location to displace air. A petcock would also work, but possibly not give the ability to fill.

Also when filling the system, I find it helpful to use a bleed funnel. It becomes the high point in the system and aids in air removal.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

So as said air should not be able to enter a closed system. Next what is this open valve up top? Coolant system is pressurized so there's no way you'd want that open during normal operation. You want a very high pressure cap on the rad and a lower pressure cap on the top of the soup can and connect that so if it starts bubbling it goes into your over flow tank. You still want to leave the line hooked up from the rad to the coolant over flow tank in case you start loosing coolant.


At last you might want to look into hypers holy grail brackets so they hold your metal bar in the right spot. That will most likely solve your problems.

What about hot-spot boiling? I agree, my current set-up is awful.
I agree, which is why I bought the BEGi spacer; I suppose now is the time to install it. Even if I had space to do the swirl-pot and header-tank, it's more money when I really need to save my pennies for a Giken.
It's name is "Magic Funnel" and it's made my life worth living. :)

Thanks all.

I can't just move it due to the shitty waterneck I'm using, it has to all be replaced.

Why don't you point it sideways instead of straight up and use the GM hose? Should be much easier to bleed, and those of us doing that aren't having the same problems you are.

That's why I bought the spacer from BEGi. When i first did this, we didn't have options that we have today; I needed to clear the CLT sensor and the coil pack which is no longer there. I'm also getting a pipe made because I don't like having all that rubber hose, waiting to burst.

This works pretty good for an off the shelf solution and you don't have to have a pressurized overflow tank.
GReddy Radiator Breather Tank S-Type Breather Tank 12400903 | eBay

If your radiator cap is the highest thing in the system and the water pump isn't creating cavitation then this shouldn't be necessary. Lower the routing and save for your os. Is your water temp sensor plumbed into that spacer connecting the two hoses at the back of the head? You might be getting inconsistent readings because of the air bubble moving back and forth.

if you replace that metal cupler inthe rear with something like this and bleed it like its a VW/Audi it could solve your problem

http://home.comcast.net/~walterclark...line_drain.jpg

I wouldn't be "to" worried about a little air in the upper hose, really it should push into the rad and eventually out to the overflow. But you want the air out of the system, so my suggestion would be put a bleed at the high point, then every time you have cooling system hot and pressured, engine off, bleed the air out. The bleed could even be plumbed back to the overflow.
The bleed/bypass on some cars goes back to the suction side of the WP, I don't like that idea, as it just circulates the air back into the enclosed system.
Swirl pot is a cool way to go, but you need to design the system to have the overflow actually incorporated into the enclosed system, with the rad cap on the overflow.

I'm going to install the BEGi parts and see what it does.

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to use the M tuned rear outlet? The rest of your system looks almost the same....

I have that kit and don't have the air problems you do....I don't have any problems (other than I "think" the thremostat needs to stay closed longer for a quicker warm up....and getting the fan on a little earlier would be good).

Certainly had no dramas with air or bleeding requirements, just filled and went....

This swirl pot solution seems unnecessarily complicated....especially as no one else seems to require it.

We run one on teh FSAE car, works great and we had no cooling issues this year. Made it with alum. we had sitting around.



https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1343001525

I love the squid intake :D

Boiling create water vapor, which condensate to liquid water when it reaches a colder area. It does not "create" air in the system.

A purge valve at the top of a swirl pot can IMHO be used the same way as a air bleed valve on any water boiler, water radiator, etc. You bleed off the collected air while the system is under pressure and close it when it bleeds only scolding water.

If this have been obvious all the time, feel free to flame me :)

Well if you want to go with the water boiler method, you need a big area where the flow of the water slows down enough so gravity can do its job.

This is not the right way to do it for a car though. This is a closed system where if you fill up the highest point with coolant you'd be displacing any air.

I had similar questions and sent a email to MotoIQ and here is what I got:
Ask Sarah: MSD ignition, DashCommand software, swirl pot/surge tank

A swirl pot could also be plumbed into the surge tank to allow for more air to be removed from the system. I was planning on adding a surge tank first, then adding a swirl pot if I still wasn't happy with the water temps. From though many of the build articles on MotoIQ, most teams seem to use a surge tank only

I have also used this thread from Matt Andrews on his surge tank to locate a few good locations for tapping into the system for a surge tank:
how to cure a turbo's miata's overheating issues. version 19... - ClubRoadster.net

From everything I read a few months ago, you'll want to tap into the system multiple places to make sure the surge tank is removing the most amount of air. Matt seems to be taping into the system at radiator and the back of the head (BEGi spacer?). If you added a swirl pot, you could have a 3 point to remove air.

$300 and lots of rubber hose I don't want.

I still don't get this. In order to connect your hard line to your spacer in the back and the radiator in the front, you'll have to use two rubber hose couplers, that in your words, will burst. Yet you've now introduced 2 extra failure points and a long aluminum pipe ready to crack.

That guy Hustler should come in here and rip this guy a new one for unsound thinking... ;)

Anyway, I used the m tuned kit and used a hard line up the side of the IM but I meant, you can just buy the rear adaptor alone....(I am sure you know this already...)

Wouldn't using a tried and true part that is KNOWN to not have air or bleed issues save you all this trouble...not to mention many (hundreds?) using the m tuned kit or version thereof and having no problems with burst hoses OR air...

ALSO, if the rubber hose was a problem, would MAZDA have made the NB lower hose completely out of rubber replacing the multi rubber / metal abomination that the NA's have?

The BEGi spacer is "known to work", and hundreds cheaper.

$300 for the spacer is too much money for me, I am poor.

My reliability standards are higher than Mazda's. I've replaced that rubber hose on two cars, I have not replaced any metal "hose-substitutes". It's easier to stock and prepare for stright, rubber coupler replacement than funky-shaped hoses. It's worth the time and money to build this car to the level I want because I expect to drive it home from the track.

Ever checked out a TVR S2? Just saw the Wheeler Dealer episode when they rebuild one. Apparently they come with a swirl pot. Thought you might wanna know.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1343158531

Ok that makes sense to me.

There are a few options for trapped air.

- A swirl pot in-line with the rad water flow (top rad hose photo in earlier post above) or,

- a surge tank located at the highest point. Lots of suppliers make these - example:
Canton Racing Products 80-200 Canton Racing Coolant Expansion Fill Tanks

- Hose at tank rad cap tee'd into the normal water overflow tank on the right fender,
- Small hose fitting near top of tank goes to the high point in your cooling system (where the air is trapped)
- Large hose fitting at bottom is Tee'd into suction side of the water pump (lower rad hose / mixing manifold)

In both cases the tank is pressurized (and has a rad cap).

For those with road car, a late 60's Corvette also had a similar system where the heater hose passed through the tank... try:
68-72 Corvette TANK - expansion, #301630, all w/327/350 except 70-72 LT1 & 68-69 427's, correctly dated, (specify date, 1-2 weeks delivery) · Chicago Corvette

Good luck

http://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment...2&d=1272777893

No overheating problems here.

i like that pressure reservoir.

PRC built it. It was around 85 IIRC.