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Old 07-22-2012, 12:00 AM   #1
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Default ITT we will discuss swirl pots galore!!!

I'm thinking of getting this:
  1. Its inexpensive
  2. I don't like the way my coolant gauge was behaving (hot cold, hot cold...)
  3. It's only $100 and could go a long way to keeping the head cooler

Questions:
  1. Should I mount it as high as possible?
  2. Which side is up? I thought the air-bleeder came out the top, making me think this picture shows the piece upside-down.
  3. Can I run it under the intake plenum?
  4. Does the bleeder always stay open?
  5. Where does the bleeder feed? (I'm guessing over-flow)

I'm thinking about taking the car to Abe and having him make hard-pipes from the rear Kia water-neck, welded to the swirl pot on both sides, then welded out to an "S" shaped rubber hose that goes into the radiator.

Please, discuss.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:29 AM   #2
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Ideally you want to mount it above the engine and in a cooler spot. And yeah bleed should be at the top routed back into the overflow.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:46 AM   #3
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Okay, here is my current reroute set-up which I believe puts air in the system:



I just bought the gear to make it do this:

Where should I put the swirl pot on which set-up? If we're trying to mount it high, I'll keep the current set-up. and remove that aluminum piece between hoses and replace with the swirl-pot...but will it work?
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:53 AM   #4
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I should also note that it's very tight back there with electrical grounds, vacuum hose, SS fuel hose, and that coolant pipe.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:55 AM   #5
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What does a swirl pot do and how does it work?
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Old 07-22-2012, 03:12 AM   #6
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Cheaper options?

INDY RACE CHAMP CAR REYNARD COSWORTH SWIRL POT WATER SYSTEM LINE RADIATOR | eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190602207888...ht_3342wt_1195

or





Quote:
Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
What does a swirl pot do and how does it work?
Constant bleed of air pockets in the coolant system, provides an area for surge and apparently a must have for race cars. Coolant enters, swirls, air rises to the top, and bleeds into your overflow. This is on my long list of to-dos.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:11 AM   #7
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The swirl pot thing is intriguing. It seems like bleeding the cooling system would be easy as hell. If some one could make one that works and could mount inline with a coolant reroute that'd be awesome. Mount it to the side of the intake mani so that it moves with the motor movement and doesn't flex the hose much. After a little googling I like the ones with the rad cap, in my mind it would maintain system pressure. The tank ones with just lines I can't figure how they keep pressure in the system. Also they seem to only pick up coolant from little lines. Sorta half ***. The ones using 1.25 in/out and a rad cap with a bleed line to overflow tank look good and I can see how they function. After some searching it also seems that americans don't use these much. 95% of the ones I found are in the UK or Europe.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:34 AM   #8
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You need a rad cap one or at least to close the bleeder valve. For it to work right it needs to be the highest thing in the coolant system.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:02 AM   #9
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If using a swirltank like the one in the OP, you'll need an expansion tank with a rad cap. This thank will be the highest point in the system. The expansion tank will be connected to the overflow tank. Several points in the system is usualy connected to the expansion tank to help bleed the system. Take care that no points betwen the waterpump and thermostat/restrictor is connected to the expansion tank.

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Old 07-22-2012, 10:03 AM   #10
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It's early, so here are my semi-coherent, semi-randomized thoughts.

First off, a sealed coolant system can not 'add air into the system'. If you have air entering, then you have other problems that need to be addressed. I think your problem is that you are unable to bleed out all of the air from you coolant system, based on this picture:



It looks like the highest point of your cooling system is the metal hose coupler at the back of the head. My suspicion is that air gets trapped in that section, as it would be extremely difficult to fully bleed that part out.

What I'm thinking is you could put a tap in this section of pipe -- maybe something like an exhaust bung, and when bleeding the cooling system, crack the bung cap so air can escape. You could possibly also fill from the location to displace air. A petcock would also work, but possibly not give the ability to fill.

Also when filling the system, I find it helpful to use a bleed funnel. It becomes the high point in the system and aids in air removal.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:18 AM   #11
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So as said air should not be able to enter a closed system. Next what is this open valve up top? Coolant system is pressurized so there's no way you'd want that open during normal operation. You want a very high pressure cap on the rad and a lower pressure cap on the top of the soup can and connect that so if it starts bubbling it goes into your over flow tank. You still want to leave the line hooked up from the rad to the coolant over flow tank in case you start loosing coolant.


At last you might want to look into hypers holy grail brackets so they hold your metal bar in the right spot. That will most likely solve your problems.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
First off, a sealed coolant system can not 'add air into the system'. If you have air entering, then you have other problems that need to be addressed. I think your problem is that you are unable to bleed out all of the air from you coolant system, based on this picture:
What about hot-spot boiling? I agree, my current set-up is awful.
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It looks like the highest point of your cooling system is the metal hose coupler at the back of the head. My suspicion is that air gets trapped in that section, as it would be extremely difficult to fully bleed that part out.
I agree, which is why I bought the BEGi spacer; I suppose now is the time to install it. Even if I had space to do the swirl-pot and header-tank, it's more money when I really need to save my pennies for a Giken.
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Also when filling the system, I find it helpful to use a bleed funnel. It becomes the high point in the system and aids in air removal.
It's name is "Magic Funnel" and it's made my life worth living.

Thanks all.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
At last you might want to look into hypers holy grail brackets so they hold your metal bar in the right spot. That will most likely solve your problems.
I can't just move it due to the shitty waterneck I'm using, it has to all be replaced.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:54 PM   #14
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Why don't you point it sideways instead of straight up and use the GM hose? Should be much easier to bleed, and those of us doing that aren't having the same problems you are.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Why don't you point it sideways instead of straight up and use the GM hose? Should be much easier to bleed, and those of us doing that aren't having the same problems you are.
That's why I bought the spacer from BEGi. When i first did this, we didn't have options that we have today; I needed to clear the CLT sensor and the coil pack which is no longer there. I'm also getting a pipe made because I don't like having all that rubber hose, waiting to burst.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:42 PM   #16
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This works pretty good for an off the shelf solution and you don't have to have a pressurized overflow tank.
GReddy Radiator Breather Tank S-Type Breather Tank 12400903 | eBay

If your radiator cap is the highest thing in the system and the water pump isn't creating cavitation then this shouldn't be necessary. Lower the routing and save for your os. Is your water temp sensor plumbed into that spacer connecting the two hoses at the back of the head? You might be getting inconsistent readings because of the air bubble moving back and forth.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:58 PM   #17
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if you replace that metal cupler inthe rear with something like this and bleed it like its a VW/Audi it could solve your problem

http://home.comcast.net/~walterclark...line_drain.jpg
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:04 PM   #18
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I wouldn't be "to" worried about a little air in the upper hose, really it should push into the rad and eventually out to the overflow. But you want the air out of the system, so my suggestion would be put a bleed at the high point, then every time you have cooling system hot and pressured, engine off, bleed the air out. The bleed could even be plumbed back to the overflow.
The bleed/bypass on some cars goes back to the suction side of the WP, I don't like that idea, as it just circulates the air back into the enclosed system.
Swirl pot is a cool way to go, but you need to design the system to have the overflow actually incorporated into the enclosed system, with the rad cap on the overflow.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:02 PM   #19
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I'm going to install the BEGi parts and see what it does.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:49 PM   #20
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Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to use the M tuned rear outlet? The rest of your system looks almost the same....

I have that kit and don't have the air problems you do....I don't have any problems (other than I "think" the thremostat needs to stay closed longer for a quicker warm up....and getting the fan on a little earlier would be good).

Certainly had no dramas with air or bleeding requirements, just filled and went....

This swirl pot solution seems unnecessarily complicated....especially as no one else seems to require it.
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