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Old 06-09-2015, 11:43 PM   #1
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Default Lap time thread

Is there a lap time thread floating around anywhere? I tried searching a variety of key words but didn't turn up anything. But I can't imagine this hasn't been a thread like this.

I've done 9 track days at this point and Im giving some thought to what direction I want to go with the car (short term and long term). More modifications, while fun, are a slippery slope, and eventually cross a point of diminishing returns. And what's been refreshing about my miata is the low cost and reliability. To date, I've never had to turn a wrench at the race track and the car has been flawless. So I don't want to mess that up. (I'm the 3rd owner to track this car hard, so a lot of the bugs have been sorted out).

So anyways, I'm searching for some point of reference. For starters, if folks with a comparably setup car are significantly faster than me, then the driver needs more work before we give any more thought to the car. Beyond that, I'd like a reference point as to what's achievable in my miata, and at what modification/cost level.

Specifically, I'm looking for lap times at VIR, full course and then a brief summary of the car setup to achieve that time.

Last edited by bigmackloud; 06-10-2015 at 11:54 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:07 AM   #2
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One suggestion is to post/exchange native files from AIM/Racelogic as the software to open them is a free download. This way people get to see lines/speeds etc and it is then possible to overlay your own over another persons.

I'm not sure on AIM, but Racelogic software allows upto 8 laps (with video) to be displayed at any one time. Not sure how many laps can be displayed sans video.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:47 AM   #3
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What are your lap times?
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:35 AM   #4
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So full course, my best lap is a 2:24 (Oct 2014).

North course, I ran a 1:52 (April 2015 - first time running that configuration).

For lap timing, I'm using Harry's Lap Timer. For the cost, I really like it. Though I am searching for a way to do a better lap vs lap comparison. My last track day, I actually got slower... or at least my overall lap times got slower by about 2 secs (2:26). I honestly don't know exactly why. My lap timer shows I improved on almost every sector of the track and my virtual best got better, and I set new top speeds in several sections (121mph on the back straight, 109mph through the uphill esses). But it was much hotter this event (low 90's), and I lost confidence in my tires. I think I let the pressures get too high and the tires got greasy (started at 35psi, was seeing 42psi coming off the track). And it was a sold out event, so there was a ton of lap traffic so I never got any really clean laps. But I'm still disappointed in my lap times.

I'll see if I get upload some video of my best lap from this last event.
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:06 AM   #5
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Here is me:



Laptime is 2.18.9
Mods are listed below, car w/ driver is 2300 lbs. Tires are about a year old 205 NT-01s. My lap is far from perfect, I lose a lot of time in T14 braking a bit early and T1 was pretty scraggly.

Your lap looks pretty good overall. Its only one lap, so I am sure some of this obvious. I would say your T1 apex is a bit late and you need to track out more. T3 you missed the apex (obviously). South bend you you can run over the apex gator to carry more speed. T14 you are turning in a bit early. If you want to do the trail braking line through there, then getting on the gator is probably not the best. Just depends on the tires/grip you have.
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:06 AM   #6
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2:23s at Hyperfest

110whp 2234lbs post-race weight
BFG R1
Suspension

I use an AIM Solo:
Attached Thumbnails
Lap time thread-80-vir_data_1e46b2c8093a0180daeb3d33cd8efb46d23e43b0.jpg  
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:19 AM   #7
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^ You race with James in PTE right?
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
^ You race with James in PTE right?
Yes. I watched your video before that's good driving sir.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
I would say your T1 apex is a bit late and you need to track out more. T3 you missed the apex (obviously). South bend you you can run over the apex gator to carry more speed. T14 you are turning in a bit early. If you want to do the trail braking line through there, then getting on the gator is probably not the best. Just depends on the tires/grip you have.
You're definitely correct on all of the above. That video was from October. I think I've improved a bit on T1. I still struggle with my turn-in point for T3 (and thus miss the apex). I also really struggled with T10 (south bend) at this last event, so I'm losing time there. With my tires getting greasy, I just lost all confidence to push it through there. It seems like a lot of the spec Miata guys are running about 90mph through T10, whereas I am dropping to just over 80mph.

I'll try to get some video of a lap or two from this last event to post for more group analysis.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmackloud View Post
You're definitely correct on all of the above. That video was from October. I think I've improved a bit on T1. I still struggle with my turn-in point for T3 (and thus miss the apex). I also really struggled with T10 (south bend) at this last event, so I'm losing time there. With my tires getting greasy, I just lost all confidence to push it through there. It seems like a lot of the spec Miata guys are running about 90mph through T10, whereas I am dropping to just over 80mph.

I'll try to get some video of a lap or two from this last event to post for more group analysis.
too much white wash in the video to see your line in T2 - T3. I will be at the July event if you are going then. Won't have the Miata though...
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
too much white wash in the video to see your line in T2 - T3.
Sorry about that. For this last event I turned on the spot meter on my gopro and that seems to have helped.

Last edited by bigmackloud; 06-10-2015 at 11:56 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:34 AM   #12
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This one might have some more info- kinda hard to dig through though...

Post your best lap times - Page 45 - MX-5 Miata Forum
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:39 AM   #13
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This one might have some more info- kinda hard to dig through though...

Post your best lap times - Page 45 - MX-5 Miata Forum
Thanks, that is a useful thread. I did come across that thread while I was searching. And as a tip Control+F opens a keyword search box in your browser, and lets you search the page for keywords like "VIR", which speeds up the browsing process. (as someone who went through almost all 45 pages this becomes a real time saver, haha).
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:53 AM   #14
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So following my most recent track day, where I really feel like I made improvements as a driver but as starting to see some limitations in my current setup (like my tires), I've been pondering the future of the car and any of the common mods.

I'd like to go to a 225 on a 15x9 wheel with a set of R-comp scrubs. But then there's the question of how well that works with my current suspension. I'm running the KYB AGX shocks and GC coilovers with the standard 375/250 spring rates. r-comps typically dictate a higher spring rate, but popular opinion seems to be that the KYB's don't like significantly higher spring rates.

I think there would be benefit from the Singular hood vents and brake ducts too. (I've got 4 days on my dtc-60's and I'm not sure they'd last another 2 day event).

And dare I even dream about a front splitter and rear wing... You can see the snowball effect beginning here..

So this caused me to pause and give some thought to the long term future of the car, what's achievable, and at what cost. (note my 1.6L has 162k miles on it, and has had a turbo for probably the last 10 years). Or do I just suck it up, forego more mods, continue working to trim another 2-3 sec of my lap times with driver improvements, learn to be content giving point-bys, and strive to find joy in simplicity and low cost.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmackloud View Post
So following my most recent track day, where I really feel like I made improvements as a driver but as starting to see some limitations in my current setup (like my tires), I've been pondering the future of the car and any of the common mods.

I'd like to go to a 225 on a 15x9 wheel with a set of R-comp scrubs. But then there's the question of how well that works with my current suspension. I'm running the KYB AGX shocks and GC coilovers with the standard 375/250 spring rates. r-comps typically dictate a higher spring rate, but popular opinion seems to be that the KYB's don't like significantly higher spring rates.

I think there would be benefit from the Singular hood vents and brake ducts too. (I've got 4 days on my dtc-60's and I'm not sure they'd last another 2 day event).

And dare I even dream about a front splitter and rear wing... You can see the snowball effect beginning here..

So this caused me to pause and give some thought to the long term future of the car, what's achievable, and at what cost. (note my 1.6L has 162k miles on it, and has had a turbo for probably the last 10 years). Or do I just suck it up, forego more mods, continue working to trim another 2-3 sec of my lap times with driver improvements, learn to be content giving point-bys, and strive to find joy in simplicity and low cost.
find a class/series and build your car to that. It seems to me you may have a competitive side, in which case you will want some standardization to really measure yourself against competitors.

Brake ducts maybe good. Track time seems more important than the rest (unless you have temp issues). I will say I would seriously consider moving to a better suspension. For the rest, see my first comment.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
find a class/series and build your car to that. It seems to me you may have a competitive side, in which case you will want some standardization to really measure yourself against competitors.

Brake ducts maybe good. Track time seems more important than the rest (unless you have temp issues). I will say I would seriously consider moving to a better suspension. For the rest, see my first comment.
I've toyed with the idea of trying my hand at time trials. Though I'm not sure if that's a wasted effort if I don't have the resources to attend every event (VIR yes, but other tracks not likely).

Would you say r-comps on my current suspension are a waste? I'm not against the idea of new coilovers, but Xida's are like $2000, right? That's a big chunk of change. What type of improvement is that worth in lap times? (I don't mean to focus on lap times, as if that's the only thing that matters, but its kinda the only point of reference for a one-to-one type comparison for changes. For example, if $2k in suspension work only trims 1 sec off lap times, then that doesn't seem like a proportional trade-off for cost vs improvement.

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Old 06-10-2015, 12:42 PM   #17
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I'd say stick with what you have for now and spend money on seat-time and instruction...


Make the car reliable (brake ducts and make sure it runs cool) and drive the **** out of it.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmackloud View Post
I've toyed with the idea of trying my hand at time trials. Though I'm not sure if that's a wasted effort if I don't have the resources to attend every event (VIR yes, but other tracks not likely).

Would you say r-comps on my current suspension are a waste? I'm not against the idea of new coilovers, but Xida's are like $2000, right? That's a big chunk of change. What type of improvement is that worth in lap times? (I mean to focus on lap times, as if that's the only thing that matters, but its kinda the only point of reference for a one-to-one type comparison for changes. For example, if $2k in suspension work only trims 1 sec off lap times, then that doesn't seem like a proportional trade-off for cost vs improvement.
Certainly if you are looking for the biggest drop in lap times for the least amount of money, R comps are the way to go. But its really more like taking steroids to help you lift more weight than actually building up your muscle.

I haven't looked at your data, but I am sure you can find a few low hanging fruit to improve your driving. You are probably at or pretty close to the cut off for making good use of R-Comps, but I am thinking a suspension will give you a better chassis setup to continue improving your driving more so than R comps.


Are Xidas worth it? I dunno, if you want to compete then yea for sure. I don't have an AB test between my old Bilstein setup and my current Xida setup, but then again a suspension like the Xidas allows you to do things that the Bilsteins won't, which will open up different amounts of time at different tracks.

For example, at CMP I couldn't take nearly as much of the inside curb at the kink with the Bilsteins. On the Xidas I can take all the curb I ever want. How much time is that? well speed is ~3-4 mph higher because I don't lift period now, so its probably a few tenths. On the other hand, are the Xidas doing something for me at T11 there? probably not much.

I wouldn't hesitate to go back to a DIY Bilstein setup, especially after the extensive development that the MT community has done on it. I think one guy pieced his together with like $400? just go read that thread front to back. Plus you already have GC sleeves so that saves you about ~$100 of the cost there.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:55 PM   #19
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There's more than a few people here who consider VIR their home course here with roughly the same setup. FatKao has a PTE car, I have a PTEish car, and Seefo is PTEish as well. I know that there's a push to get PTE bigger in the Mid-Atlantic region, so it might be worthwhile to look towards that; I doubt I'll be joining the fray any time soon since I made a blood pact with Seefo last year to do something incredibly insane.

R-comps will make you go faster; however, street tires are a good second option if you're looking to save some money and you're still learning. I did a 1:48.5x in April around North course and caused FatKao to hulk out and use his SM7s to get into the 1:47s, I was on last year's Rivals, too. I use Spec Miata/PTE times to use as a benchmark, and they're readily available on Mid-Atlantic's site.

Ultimately, get more seat time and then spend some money on Xidas.

e: here's a video of FatKao and I driving my car in April 2014 around North Course (he's on the left, I'm on the right):
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:55 PM   #20
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As promised, here's some more recent video from my last track day. Second lap is better than the first. Corvette has a pucker moment at the very very end.




Seefo - you mentioned above that I late apex T1 which keeps me from tracking out left... you're right. I watched several of my laps tonight and more times than not, I'm late on the T1 apex. Never really noticed that before. I'll work on that. Thanks for the tip.
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