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Old 07-15-2017, 04:03 AM   #1
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Default New race pads?

I know we have discussed this occasionally but it is time for new pads. I'm not driving much these days but i'm willing to try something new. hawk dtc60 is works pretty well. I cranked the bias valve and turned down the front shocks a few clicks to comp for the slippery hard braking zone at the local track. that said I was going easy on brakes to avoid a flat spot on the long straits. perhaps I should stick with what I know and continue to dial it in. or i can try a new compound.. in the pcar world we were all padgid, played with cobalt friction with success running old b type Acons on Audi along with carbotech for custom compounds. consitering the progresses, and the limited time I have to devote to the hobby, might just order anther set of dtc 60s. my bigger issue is learning to drive fast without power steering. I'm thinking about putting it back on but perhaps a professional alignment and Corner Balance should come first.
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:10 PM   #2
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I've only ever driven Miatas on Carbotechs and was very happy with the feel and bite.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:43 PM   #3
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The shop I work for uses exclusively Cobalts. Everyone loves them. Zero bedding issues and feel out of the box. Really love how they have an optimized pad so you get a tiny bit more friction surface without any pad hardware. Makes pad swaps that much easier. Although I don't think this is exclusive to Cobalts.
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:51 PM   #4
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Never tried the DTC 60's. Savington loves em and seems to do real well with them.

I ran and liked the Carbotech XP12&XP10's. The only downside was bedding is a PITA. They also seemed to wear out really quick. I currently run Cobalts XR2&XR3 and would be hard pressed to switch to anything else. Zero bedding issues, great modulation and long life.

Last edited by k24madness; 07-16-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:35 AM   #5
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Second Cobalts. They just work. No bedding or transfer layer contamination issues. I run XR1s in the front on the wilwoods and XR2 in the rears.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:40 AM   #6
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Again for Cobalts, haven't found anything to match them in performance. You get what you pay for
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:27 AM   #7
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my feeling is that one should ref the pad compounds at a min in their reply. perhaps basic car set up.. I know these things have been discussed before so I appreciate the comments. any one try the gloc pads 949 has on their site?

Years ago I did the bed in procedure for cobalt late at night, it was fantastic sparks pushed out via brake ducts on an audi a4 really freaked out the the other road users, i'm talking a 4" grinder on steel aiming at the rear view mirrors. it was great. during that time I talked to a guy.. Andy Lin come to mind, no idea if that is correct, it was 10 years ago but he was very nice and interested in feed back, and called me the next week to follow up. who does that! it was a great pad but at the time is was only available in a thinner 12mm fitment for my caliper and the competition had more material so I went a different route. I will certainly consider using their product again.

carbotech has done some nice work as well. they made me custom race pads for my a4 back in 2000 ish. I was just starting out and my instructor at the time could not believe I was on stock brakes + race pads & vents. it was a pretty fun time for sure.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:53 AM   #8
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Just swapped carbotech XP10 for G-loc G10 and they are better in quite a few ways. The G-loc don't have a groove in the center so they don't squeel quite as bad the carbotechs. The Carbo's dusted really badly but so far the G-loc isn't as bad. Pedal feels firmer but we'll see how they do at the next track session. At temp the Carbo's have a spring feel to them, not mushy but there is some travel to the pedal which once you're over the odd sensation makes them easy to modulate.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:52 PM   #9
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Thanks for the feedback on G-LOC Bronson. Given the cast of G-LOC and 949 involvement I would be open to trying them.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:57 PM   #10
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My car:
2583 with me in it, fullish tank, no hardtop.
Xidas 900/500. Poly/bronze bushings.

Ran the car last weekend without functioning abs, so the bias is whatever is built into the NB2 abs system when it's not actually functional. Sport brakes rear, TSE 11.75 fronts with AP racing j hook rotors.rotors. XR1 FRONT, XR2 rear.

Other than abs not functioning I can say this is the best my brakes have ever felt. Solid pedal, no drama braking.
The abs issue is now resolved but that's unrelated.

I used carbotechs for years and loved them on stock brakes. When bedded properly they work well and are easy on rotors, even cold. I switched to Cobalt because after I switched to the 11.75 front brakes, I could not generate enough heat in the bedding procedure on the street to bed them properly. I tried three times and ruined three sets of pads. My fault, not carbotechs, but that gets expensive fast. At least expensive for Miata drivers. So I switched to cobalts. They aren't picky and they work extremely well.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
My car:
Sport brakes rear, TSE 11.75 fronts with AP racing j hook rotors.rotors, 2583 with me in it . XR1 FRONT, XR2 rear.
That's interesting. I was temped to try that combo but felt it maybe to aggressive for my 11.75 V8R Stoptech/Sport combo, 2,200lbs with me in it. That maybe the direction I go when I switch to manual brakes.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:24 PM   #12
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One might say that if the brakes pad choice is too aggressive, one isn't driving hard enough

Jokes aside, the XR1/XR2 combo seems to work well for me. I will be completely honest here, and mention that I have always had ABS in my track car until this past weekend. So threshold braking without ABS was new to me. I had a couple of small lockups when the inside front was less loaded; otherwise it was drama free, although I could tell that I was more careful to brake in a straight line and then turn in with perhaps some threshold braking compared to before. I have a reputation, others have conveyed to me, as a late braker / hard charger, so I'm pretty confident I am working the car hard.

I vote try them. There's some caliper temp paint info I got from Hustler I can send to you, if you want, you can see how hot your calipers are getting. Your track car is a bit more serious than mine.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:36 PM   #13
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What are you running for tires Mobius? I run the S80's. Pretty light combo that locks up easy. I'll still try the XR1/XR2 combo but feel that's best reserved for manual brakes.

I did manage to lockup my setup once going into a corner too hot. Even with all the power I have I prefer stealing apexes with late braking. Something only possible in a car as light as mine. Next best is over under passing. Defend if you will, your compromised line will now cost you corner exit speed. I'll set you up for the pass then.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:46 AM   #14
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Möbius' choice of 1/2 is very aggressive. FYI, SM runs 3/5 iirc.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:54 AM   #15
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On my 240 then 310 whp turbo track car I was running a xr2 front Xr4 rear. No ABS, AP racing front brakes with 1.6 rear brakes.
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:14 AM   #16
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Does nobody run Raybestos ST43's? They bite much like the Cobalts except their torque curve seems flatter over the temp curve and they last FOREVER! We run them in endurance racing and get several races out of a set of pads with no ducting.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:00 AM   #17
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I really don't understand how so many people have trouble bedding Carbotech's. I could bed them on the street in an NA 1.6.

LITERALLY all you have to do is:

Continuous 70-10 stops, do this until the brakes stink and the pedal starts getting soft, let them cool.

Done.

(or the way I've ever bedded any brakes on any car or motorcycle and never had an issue)
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
I really don't understand how so many people have trouble bedding Carbotech's. I could bed them on the street in an NA 1.6.

LITERALLY all you have to do is:

Continuous 70-10 stops, do this until the brakes stink and the pedal starts getting soft, let them cool.

Done.

(or the way I've ever bedded any brakes on any car or motorcycle and never had an issue)
When I was running NB sport brakes, I did this several times without issues. No problems bedding the brakes.

When I switched to 11.75 wilwood brakes in the front, I was no longer able to get enough heat into the front rotors on the street. I'm in the middle of an urban area. Road and room and traffic allowance for multiple 70-10 stops in a row is basically non-existent. The 11.75 brakes generate more braking torque and have a higher thermal capacity. I went through 3 sets of front pads trying to bed them only to destroy them the first track day. Not carbotech's fault,
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
What are you running for tires Mobius? I run the S80's. Pretty light combo that locks up easy. I'll still try the XR1/XR2 combo but feel that's best reserved for manual brakes.

I did manage to lockup my setup once going into a corner too hot. Even with all the power I have I prefer stealing apexes with late braking. Something only possible in a car as light as mine. Next best is over under passing. Defend if you will, your compromised line will now cost you corner exit speed. I'll set you up for the pass then.
225 Toyo RR on 9's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Möbius' choice of 1/2 is very aggressive. FYI, SM runs 3/5 iirc.
It is. I purchased pads based on what I'd need with the turbo on, not naturally aspirated.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:22 PM   #20
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I'm liking PFC. Based upon everyone's description of Cobalts, they seem similar.
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