Official Gridlife Roadster Modified Thread
 

Hey everyone, figured we'd start this thread since the discussion was starting to gain some momentum on the PRI thread.

Let's chat about the GridLife Roadster Modified Class.

Thank you to @KevinK121 for these initial docs.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...36832314c3.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a40ef604d2.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...59a21cd205.jpg

If anyone has any questions regarding specific rule sets or anything of that nature please contact me via email ( hedianraceteam@gmail.com ). I check my email daily and can get back to you ASAP. I just attended a time attack seminar at PRI and they covered a lot of the questions that are being asked in the "PRI" thread. Another place to be able to quick answers is through the North American Time Attack council (NATA).


https://www.northamericantimeattack.com/

Looking forward to it. Still have a few things on the to-do list but at minimum, I intend to make it out to Autobahn Country Club to get my feet wet.

I sort of dislike the RM2 interior and drivetrain rules. Makes it a little harder to build a car that can run in RM2 and then still be competitive in some of the other Street classes.

Build for Street Mod, compete in that as the main concentration and then also happen to compete in RM2. I don't think the weights will be drastically different between a Track-Mod RM2 car vs Street-Mod RM2 car.

BMW trans is what makes RM2 not look great.

​​​​​​​Huh?

I think he means other street classes apart from gridlife. You aren't able to compete in two different classes per event with GL.

Trans options are prohibited in cars retaining OEM engines. It'd be cheaper and plenty reliable to source a miata 6sp for a K car or whatever else.

The intended power limit is less than 275.


I guess I dont understand your comment.

From what I believe I had read I could run a BMW trans in GTA and Grid Life street class. The plan was to have the car reliable at 350-400whp with the BMW trans. Then just turn down the boost to below the RM2 limit.
I also don't like that I have to have full carpet and interior for Street classes but not RM2.




Nothing in the GTA street class prevents be from running the BMW trans and BP motor, since I am staying RWD. At least that is how I read the rules.

Oh, durr. I was looking at everything from the opposite perspective. That makes sense. That and the GTA classes and GL classes being similar... it all makes sense now :rolleyes:

Im confused by the engine modification rules for RM1. Are modifications open except for the items listed and I assume needing to be within the target HP range? Or is a "factory block engine" and completely unmodified engine?

I want to build the car to run in as many events as possible. I know 6 speed will do "fine" at 250-275whp at most tracks. Road Atlanta is a place though if I want the car to be competitive in a street class that the extra 100whp is "needed". I don't really want to have to go back and forth swapping between the BMW trans and 6 speeds.

That interior and carpet bits I can live with. It is the trans that kills future hopes and dreams.


Also do we know if Grid Life is going to force miata's to only compete in miata class?

Factory block engine without forced induction. Go wild and stay within the hp limits.

The FB rep basically said if its not specifically prohibited, its open. Other reps have also communicated the series is in the spirit of fun among friends and cheating/stretching the rules would be missing the point.


Yeah that makes perfect sense. And no, if you have a miata, you're not going to be forced to run with the miata classes, they just came out with these classes because it was pretty unreasonable to have a miata owner expected to compete with S2k's, boosted bmw's and corvettes.

At least I wouldn't imagine(Im going to ask now). Think you'd be better off just building for RMU with that setup? Sounds like your there anyways with them power levels.

Nah that was brought up on the Facebook page. The same fastest time of the day/event/etc can count towards your normal Time-Attack class and Roadster Modified.

Facebook group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/574171819663382

This is awesome and it's been great being apart of the initial discussion and ruleset. We'll be running 2 or 3 cars in this series in RM2 and/or RMU.

We have some surprises on the way for 2019 too, should be fun.

I don't really want to run unlimited classes, as I will get out spent by everyone and can't build a competitive car. At least for the regular street classes I think I can build a competitive miata. 275whp is probably fine for all the tracks except Road Atalanta. That one needs more HP to be competitive in. So the long term goal was BMW trans in my otherwise street car so that I can crank up boost when needed.

I may just end up building for RM2 as it is. I have a 6 speed in the car currently and have a spare. So it is the "cheaper" route for the moment. It looks like Grid Life has also added a few more events on the east coast. So maybe that will be the plan.

Ive never looked into GTA. Sounds like GL is just a for-fun series based off of it though.

Someday maybe.

Maybe it can be written in RM2 rules to allow non-manufacture transmission swaps, but still prohibit sequentials and other major performance benefiting transmissions. I believe the BMW trans swap is more of a reliability mod vs a "this will drop 0.5sec per lap!".

I missed the stock engine only for RM2. That alone will probably make me not join in. I will be sticking to the regular TA Street class.

I would consider running RMU except for I don't have a 6 point cage and have zero desire to run one for driving on the street. Running the Ace's would be nice though.

Yeah I l miss-read the stock engine only too. We taking any bets on how many rods thru blocks we'd see for turbo BPs on tracking doing 250-275rwhp? :rofl:

I got um 3 or 4 blocks sitting around. I guess I could prep them all to have spare. NB2 oil pump, 94 pistons, VVT heads. ALL the timing at the top with some e85 sounds fun.

I'm sure there will be some ironing out to do, but so far miata's haven't been terribly competitive in any class (besides darby in street mod - and she's likely going to track mod next year).

its also a first year thing... we wanted to keep a loose ruleset to invite lots of participation and see where any issues come up for the following year.

it'll be fun, and complaining will always happen - some with good reason. we'll figure out where the thin parts are and go from there. i think it'll be great for miatas in the midwest, and for gridlife. the sheer number of miatas we were able to get out for round 5 this year was amazing and awesome to see.

Is an airdam considered a "major aero device"? I have effectively an S2 car with a wing(airdam, splitter, wing, 1.8, 225's, gutted) that seems like it slots into RM1 with some additional power added to make that 150whp.
I'm also still confused about how this class works with the rest of the GL format, is this it's own independent series, run at different times then the rest of TA cars, or do we run with the other TA cars and times also carry over and compete with Street/Track Mod/Unlimited ect?

Air-dam is not considered a "major aero device" for GL rule-set.

To get the latest and greatest in Roadster Modified heres the FB group chat. A lot of questions can be discussed and talked about on this group page. The rules can be subject to change if enough people within the RM group agree on the same rulesets.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/574171819663382/

I for one, am pumped. My car slots perfectly into the RM2 class with 250 rwhp, aero, stock block, stock trans.

​​​​​​​Rotrex ftw

I had that same thought this morning. If you've got to limit the torque for mechanical sympathy, but you need HP for the big tracks (RA), then a Rotrex would be a good option.

this is a misunderstanding i've been seeing a lot of

you will still enter into one of the GL classes: street, street mod, track mod, or unlimited. you will then enter into the RM class that you fit into - points will be tabulated separately.

so you could kill it in one of the RM classes, and get destroyed in the GL class that you are entered (most miatas are long-shots for the GL classes SO FAR ;)

you'll need to read both sets of rules and pick your battles in terms of car prep... i'm pretty stoked about it

excited to see this. My car is pretty set up for RM1 as it sits :)

Come down to Road Atlanta, we'll bump-draft down the back straight! #cheattowin :party: (I'm joking on the bump-draft part)

Not sure how I feel about needing an SCCA licence to compete in gridlife but ok. I guess we'll see what all that will require... besides the ~$70/year membership.

I'm only assuming, but this could be due to the criticism of the caliber of some drivers who jumped into the Time Attack classes with little to no opening passing experience. I know at RA 2017 I questioned the quality of a few Mustang GT driver's who were holding me up and lacked situational awareness. RA 2018 was a demolition derby by some standards. I think a licensing program is something that GL needed.

EDIT - NM found the answer in a FB thread.

Yeah with that in mind... RA this year was the biggest shit show... Although track officials said the amount of cars involved in incidents was by no means above the average. I guess statistically, the GL event was tame-average for the amount of cars they had running that weekend.

wut

Question about "stock engine"... according to a thread on their FB page, "stock engine" = completely stock internally.

Well RA is an unforgiving track. Its "old school" with limited run off in some fast areas.

"stock block is defined as factory short block, pistons, rods and crankshaft"

So go nuts with headwork was my interpretation. A WHP cap is a WHP cap, doesn't matter how you get there as long as its not above.

I interpret that as the block and head that the car left the factory with but anything goes beyond that. This is why a little bit more detail is needed in the rules I think. I was told in the Facebook group that no one is taking it seriously and anyone that does take it too seriously will be "shamed". I'm not sure how effective an enforcement strategy that is but I guess we'll see.

What an atrocious rule. I get the intent, but it turns RM2 into a motor-swapping contest. Whoever can make 300whp for the longest on a stock motor wins, or whoever brings the most spare motors wins.

RMU is beyond the scope of Rover's build, RM2 would have been perfect if not for that. Alas.

Yeah, that's why I was looking for clarification... usually "stock block" doesn't mean "stock internals", like Emilio said, but apparently in this case it does.

Yep I am a bit annoyed by the rules. I have been building my car to be about the limit of the street classes for Grid Life and GTA. Unfortunately the rules for street class throw me into RMU. The rules for RM2 throw me into Limited or Unlimited in other time attack events. I think it is a bit stupid and a bit short sighted on the rules. Also 3 way adjustable shocks in RM2 boggles my mind. That seems like over kill and if you build the RM2 to the limit, you will definitely be well out classed in any other TA event.

I was hoping with the joining forces of all the different events that some unity would come. Right now it just seems like giant clusterfuck of random madness.

I think a 250whp average for RM2 would be a good limit, stock or built motor. I don't know the best way to actually test and enforce that.

This sums up by frustration to the point. I just don't get it.

Accuracy level 1000

I also don't understand the "just for fun" mindset behind the rules either. If there is ANYTHING to be won, people are going to take it seriously and look for every competitive edge.

I totally agree, I'd like BPs to be able to have forged internals for reliability. Same with a BMW trans swap. The fewer failures the better.

Edit: let's also remember this is a brand new series, and I'm confident rules will be modified after 2019. As competitors push the limits of of the classes I'm sure rules will get more specific and hopefully more fair for everyone.

I believe the "OEM block only" rule will be removed after the first season..... otherwise two things will probably happen.
1. Majority of entries will be "cheating"
2. The class will die.

I think the folks at Gridlife, or at least the fb group moderator, underestimate how much effort competitors will put into this competition. Before I personally lift a finger to prep a car for any competition anywhere, I want to have a clear understanding of the rules and no ambiguities.
I'd rather get an up front clarification on some clever interpretation and have it pre-banned than showing up with crossed fingers with a mod that's in the gray area. I always assume we will be in contention for the class win and will be scrutinized by tech accordingly.

Maybe, but I think the intent is clear to keep the series as grassroots as possible. So far, all the allowed mods in RM2 can be completed by an amateur DIY'er in their own garage. Throw engine building into a mix and you basically need to go to a machine shop at the least. I just don't think it fits with the intent of the class imo. There's a big price delta between a junkyard 1.8L and a $5,000 TSE short block (of which I would love). Hell I purchased the car, Xidas, and a 1.8L VVT for less than 5K.

Here's a list of cars that will make 200 HP and not die yet will fit into the class:

1. ND1 Miata with tune and bolt ons
2. ND2 Miata with tune and bolt ons
3. ND1/2 Miata with any FI
4. NC Miata w/ 2.5L Swap tune and bolt ons
5. Rotrex NA/NB Miata's
6. NC Miata with any form of FI
7. NC Miata with tune, bolt ons and E85

All those examples make above 200 bhp and don't explode w/ stock block. It could be a possibility that they aren't designing the class specifically for a hardcore few at MT.net.

Regardless, it's great to finally get a Miata specific class. Like mentioned, putting Miata's up against C7's, M3's, S2K's, C6z06's doesn't make much sense.

Yeah, that ^

If its for fun, its for fun. If going all out on your build and traveling all across the country for a couple pieces of carved wood trophies is what you're after... more power to ya, but you're ruining it with all the pedantic over analysis. The rules for gridlife have always been loose and there's always been plenty of people still signing up and having fun.

I'm just glad I can go run track events with my friends who drive the big-boy stuff. With some semblance of a chance at being competitive, that is.

At any given track day, do you see more of those 7 listed or turbo NA/NBs? Also, I disagree with rotrex'd na/nb, rods are still guna bend at 250+ despite the component pushing the air.

This isn't to tend for the hardcore few at MT.net, this is for the people who have made some reliability mods to their track NA/NB. I believe the reasoning behind this is flawed as well..."someone with a built BP can change their tune and run 300+ to cheat" . If someone really wanted to crank their tune on their OEM block to ~300 to cheat in the class they can.

I think the first year will be great and everyone will have a good time. If the series wants growth than some checks and balances will have to be put in place along with a more detailed rule-set. Have a built engine in RM1 or RM2? You'll need to provide a dyno-sheet before the event and datalogs if your times are questioned.

Wont take much to be able to bump draft me as I'll have #alltheaerodrag

Honestly I'm not sure if that's sarcasm. In my region, there's definitely more bolt on NC, ND, and supercharged cars than NA/NB turbo miata's specifically. Uh, again I disagree. Low end torque is generally what bends rods. The prime characteristic of a Rotrex car is that they make no torque. Makes the car suck for street fun (compared to turbo) but it's super easy to keep alive. As reference I make 250 whp and 210 wtq.

Again, I just think there's a disconnect about what people think the Gridlife series is. If you've ever been to one, you'll know they honestly don't give a shit about most mods, they just check the tires for size and compound. That's kind of the whole point, it's meant to be as laid back and grassroots as possible. I think people are coming from a NASA/SCCA/GTA state of mind, and that just doesn't fit here. Frankly I want a more casual series to compete in. Both can exist.

Exactly.

Showing up with a poorly prepared car and being OK with being smoked is fine, if you just want to participate. But it's really naive to think that everyone else feels the same way.

And I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just saying that in general Gridlife has always been a more relaxed racing series compared to the west side's stuff. There's no real prizes, no contingency etc., everyone's kind of just there for fun.

The fact is simply not everyone has the amount of resources you, Andrew or a lot of other guys here have. I think a stock motor, low boost class makes sense.

I found the problem.

Not arguing the actual make up of the class, what's legal and what isn't. We are discussing the difficulty in knowing what car to bring give the ambiguities in the current rule set.

As it stands, for example. No one here knows for sure what Gridlife means by "stock block". Everyone has an opinion but no one knows 100% for certain.

We have reached out to the guys at Gridife and offered to help clear up some of the potential loop holes. They accepted our consultation.
The outline of the rule set and intention are good. Just need to make some clarifications is all. We don't really care what mod is or isn't legal in a given class.

We'll have many folks calling us asking us for advice and parts for RM. Right now we are in the dark, as are you. Hopefully that will change.

I truly believe a space can exist between HPDE's and full W2W/TT racing. That's where Gridlife targeted.

x2

Your area has more money than my area apparently :P.

So the longevity of a 275hp BP won't change if it's oem vs aftermarket components? I'll answer that for you... No, oem won't last as long as properly built engine. Also 200hp=/=275hp, stop comparing 200hp engines for a 275hp class, that's naive even for GL.

If one just wants to have fun, why even compete at all? Just go out in HPDE with your buddies and have fun.

MiataChallenge and the plethora of singlemake series that followed have been wildly successful on the west coast doing exactly that, but I think they're all firmly in "TT Racing" territory, whatever that means. They pay $20 extra for lap timing, and there are results, and often trophies.
86Cup has a midwest and norcal variant, ran inside Gridlife at a couple events in the Midwest. The key is, those series all have rules that much more thoroughly assess the specific platform, many with a spec tire or gentleman's tire, more than 3 classing levels, etc.

The current RM rules have gaps in the power levels, a Stock Engine rule in a class that allows swaps, etc...
"Two aero elements in the front" PLUS canards. So, three aero elements in the front. not 2?
"Suspension is limited to two/three adjustments" Well, Camber, Caster and Toe are adjustable from the factory. Ride height would be a 4th adjustment. Rebound damping 5th, compression damping 6th.

Either way, I love entry level competition formats as much as the next guy. I am in the business of selling parts to help people go win entry level competition formats. I just wish these rules made more sense, but i'm probably arguing semantics in a "just for fun" safe space class created so the Miatas wouldn't get beat so badly in the "real" gridlife classes.