emilio700

iTrader: (3)

lolirl

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

I see we read the rules the same way.

KevinK121

Wow, for being such critical proponents of miata culture, you guys are really shitting all over this and the people who want to try it.

I'll take the "safe space" of not having to drive against cars with 2x or 3x the displacement allowed the same level of prep, thanks.

It's been said how many times that things are not entirely polished and ready to go but lets go ahead and rip every ambiguity and gap in the wording to tiny little shreds and repeat.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

The lowest class allows any tub modification outside of the shock towers. To me that means hacking the front and back of the car off to make it lighter which is exactly what I would do if I was trying to win. I seriously doubt any competitor will do that but that's a rather significant allowance for a competition aimed at the self-described, non-serious.

No two ways around it, the rules as they are make no sense. The conclusion of this discussion is that it doesn't really matter anyway.

So no, you don't have to compete against GTRs. But don't for a moment think that the current rule set will create a fair or affordable competition amongst Miatas.

​​​​​​Frankly, I think there should be no rules whatsoever for the Miata class. No one is going to want to build a car specifically for the rules. Gridlife Tech is not going to turn you away. There are no prizes.
Think about it for a minute.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (2)

I made a post in the FB group posing the same question and what worth safe space classes bring and got a ton of backlash, as expected. If they keep going the way that they are heading, it will be like NASA with a million spec classes that have like fields of 4 or 5 cars at nationals. Everyone gets a trophy, yay.


The only saving grace is the way that they are running it. Meaning that it's like a "dual" or "additional" entry where they are still registered in a normal Time Attack class but the times are eligible for placement in this extra class to hand out more trophies as well.

I've just never been a fan of "records" that start drilling down the number of eligible candidates too far. It's like if I said I'm the fastest satin white wrapped, naturally aspirated, stock bottom end Miata with a Momo steering wheel to ever lap Buttonwillow CW13 on a Thursday. Not cool.

Padlock

while excited to see the idea come forth as I stated above, I completely agree with what you are all mentioning. I feel like the only people that come out ahead on this are the competitive people with deep pockets that really dig into the rulebook and have either a wild street car or dedicated track car. This rule set allows a TON of stuff to pass even in the most modest of classes.

For the common person that has a "middle of the range" coilover like FM, OEM bushings, 8" wide wheels on 205's and a rollbar, they still don't stand a chance in RM1 against a car with the standard MT package special of splitter, air dam, 2D rear airfoil, Xida's, 10's and 245's that also still fall in RM1. THE COMMON BUDGET FRIENDLY RACER STILL GETS SHAFTED. Speaking from my cars standpoint, I have all of the "MT package" parts listed, plus my doors gutted out and covered with LRB panels (lighter), a full interior swapped out to NA6 (lighter), and lots of creature comforts deleted (soft top, AC, PS, Cruise, Bose, center console, etc), so the idea of running in RM1 only really sounds fun because I know I've got things done that give me some advantage. I don't really feel my car should be in a stock class given everything I've done and what I've spent to get here, but if the rulebook says I can, I would.

I have never had any issues with being the underdog in a race. To some level I feel Miata guys enjoy it because there are times we still come out ahead against "faster cars" when we feel we shouldn't. If Gridlife is "just for fun" then why even create this RM classing in the first place? Go have fun racing with corvettes, S2K's, and Z's then just see where you and your Miata brethren fall at the end of the day. It'll be on the bottom half of the posted times for the class, but if its for fun, who cares?

KevinK121

Re-reading the rules Im surprised that RM1 allows so much interior modification(all interior trim may be removed) while doors are only allowed to be gutted if using a 6-point + cage with door bars(why stop there if everything else is open?).

I had assumed RM1 would be intended to keep the full interior as I thought it was intended to be slotted as a street class.

I sure dont want to rip all those things out. AC, cruise, etc, fine but a bare tub interior is a bit extreme for the lowest class.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

cut paste from my post on the fb group

Suggested rules change for disambiguation. Toss all current rules. Replace as follows:

RM1:
Forced induction allowed
180 or lower treadwear allowed
Motor swap (non-Miata engine)
Sequential trans

Any of these mod puts you in RM1

RM2:
Normally aspirated only
200 or higher tread wear allowed

Both classes:
Any aero
Any suspension
Any differential type and ratio
Any body work
Any weight
Update/backdate free

-Ditch Unlimited because who cares.
-Aero free because massive aero is going to make a lower powered N/A car slower anyway.
-Every Miata ever built will fit into a class without modification.

I would run a hacked up NA MiataKart with DIY plastic nose, eBay FRP fenders, JDM junkyard NB2, MSPnP2, 5spdx4.77, 225 Rivals and full racecar safety equipment in RM2. Cost about $12k to build from scratch and be a hoot to drive.

Goingnowherefast

iTrader: (1)

Link to the facebook trollage?

Savington

iTrader: (31)

You must be new here.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

So the FB group moderator closed any thread discussing the rules, blocked Andrew and I from commenting.

You guys have fun. I'm out.

MetalMuffins

iTrader: (1)

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

Then someone else from what I assume is GridLife says they are still open to discussion. Seems like they got excited and introduced something without a little more input. I've got bigger fish to fry right now, so I hope they get things sorted out and its success.

doward

codrus

You can't fix that, this is inherent to automobile racing (*). Spec Miata is supposed to be a class where you buy a cheap Miata, put a cage in it, put a spec set of shocks and springs in it, and go racing on cheap wheels + tires. Instead we have $30K+ Spec Miata builds.

--Ian

(*) Actually it's inherent to all forms of racing, automobile, bicycle, even running. It's just that the car makes a bigger difference in automobile racing so it becomes even more important.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

I'm staying out of the FB discussions because we won't be looking at playing in this sub-series with our program.

It's funny to see people's reactions to Emilio's suggested rules. It's based squarely on the "nobody is really worried about classes we're just here to have fun" premise. If that's really the case, then there needn't be any more division than a most basic split between the quicker and slower cars. There shouldn't be any trophies, prizes, etc. either. Detailed rulesets exist to create an even playing field in a competitive environment. If you aren't worried about being competitive, you don't need those details. Following this to its logical conclusion, why even create the RM sub-series in that case? If everyone is just having fun running at the event and isn't worried about where they fall in the results, save everyone a bunch of time with all this RM nonsense and just run in the Gridlife class regardless of what other cars are there. With a run-for-fun mentality who cares what car is leading the class you're in? You weren't actually measuring yourself against him anyways, just do your laps and enjoy yourself and go hang out with your buddies between sessions.

Ahhh but that's the rub. It seems that's not actually what most people want. They DO want to be competitive... to a certain point. They just want somewhere approachable to do it. If that's the case, you need a detailed ruleset that is VERY well thought out to create that fun sandbox for Miatas to play in. Good rule making is practically an art. The better thought through it is, the more enjoyable and easy to understand for the competitors. Conversely, an ill-conceived ruleset like the one presented originally for RM with a bunch of holes in it just creates confusion and frustration (read: not fun). Nobody will be having any fun when someone shows up with a car designed to take advantage of all the oversights in the rules and crushes everyone, and if we've accepted that it actually IS a competition you're interested in, albeit a friendly one, by process of elimination of the alternative above, then you better believe there will always be those who are more competitive than others and with larger budgets than others who will crush the "just for fun" guy if there is room in the rules to do it. Therefore, those taking on the responsibility of drafting rules for RM need to make every effort possible to shape them in a way that reduces the potential for that. That's not a simple task. The laziness in the proposed rules is simply a disservice to everyone interested in the series.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

Oh, and "I think ruleset X is best... because my car fits in it" makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

doward

Cats all around.

Jabaay cleared it up. Gridlife wants RMbasic to be "very" streetcar friendly. Current rules are going to get heavily redacted.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/574171819663382/

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

$30k is a backmarker.

$40-50k rotisserie builds are the norm these days. There were a few $60-70k builds at Runoffs

icantlearn