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Old 08-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #61
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Oh it gets worse... the oil drain on the other side is almost directly inline with the hard lines that come out of the steering rack.

For those following along at home, this location:


When I go full retard, I go all the ******* way.
Um... isnt that bung location lower than the oil level in the pan? AKA not where you want the turbo oil drain. It should be higher up the pan.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:26 PM   #62
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Um... isnt that bung location lower than the oil level in the pan? AKA not where you want the turbo oil drain. It should be higher up the pan.
Its on the side of the pan behind the AC compressor bracket rather than in front where BEGI and FM say to put it. So, no? I mean, if I failed that badly I'd love to hear about it... in my build thread.

Lets keep this one on track with oil cooler tech rather than my copious failures.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:08 AM   #63
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16-row DIY kits in stock.

Trackspeed DIY Oil Cooler Kit
Installed the 25-row cooler (thanks Andrew!) a few months ago and it works great. Spent the weekend at Road America with temps in the low-mid 80s and not once did my oil get above 218*f and that's with a passenger and chasing a Mustang. My ducting is not the greatest but the bumper is sealed to the radiator. Oil cooler is sandwiched between IC and radiator.

Wrap the braided lines with tape and there are no worries about it sawing through anything. I used
self fusing splice tape self fusing splice tape

One thing that's not mentioned on the product description that is totally awesome - the M22-AN10 90* fittings are single piece. There is no separate AN10 elbow and M22-AN10 fitting. Shorter fitting height and the just look really damn cool.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:04 AM   #64
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good info! im waiting on my oil cooler to ship already have my mocal sammich plate so gotta find fittings and lines. my car is a 91 boosted at 8lbs. i had oil pressure issues up at grange drifting in 118 degree weather so need an oil cooler for sure.
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Old 08-17-2014, 06:13 AM   #65
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Unless I missed it, nobody has mentioned oil-water intercooling?

I run one, and so far it has worked really well. It gets the oil up to temperature quickly (well, more quickly, especially in cooler weather) and seems to hold temperature to around 80-85 even in hot weather.

It is mounted on the radiator outlet so it gets the coolest water, and water temperature has never been an issue. This is the medium size of the three available.

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Old 08-17-2014, 07:48 AM   #66
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So you are heating up the cool water before it goes into your engine? So your engine runs hotter water through it the whole time? That doesn't sound so good.
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:37 PM   #67
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You are looking at the wrong end of the system. The critical point is the water exiting the engine at the correct temperature.

Yes, it is heating up the water entering the engine, the engine heats it up some more, the thermostat regulates the temperature of the water exiting the engine, and then the radiator cools the water.

If the radiator hasn't enough cooling capacity to remove both the oil and engine heat absorbed by the water, there will be an overheat. This has not happened to me (yet) even on 30+ days. The car has a radiator out of an SE (your Mazdaspeed?), and makes 120+rwkw.

If you are marginal on cooling, this would not be a good idea, unless you were moving to a bigger radiator anyway.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:34 PM   #68
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It's just not as effective as a dedicated air-cooled unit, and it shifts the load onto the radiator which is not at all desirable in the majority of applications.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:58 PM   #69
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Savington, it has pegged back the 120+ temps that I had previously (without any cooling) so I have no problem with its effectiveness. But the big benefit to me was the ability to get the oil temperature up quickly, without lots of idling etc.

Like I said above, you need the surplus cooling capacity. If you have it, I do not understand the 'not desirable' comment?

I am not preaching here. You don't like it, I never said it was for everyone. But it is an option, and it is working for me.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:11 PM   #70
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even on 30+ days.
LOLOLOLOL.

You mean 86F?

Here's the rule for this thread . . . only posters that push flat-out in TX, AZ, SOCAL or the Middle East at peak heat in August are allowed to opine.

That little thing of yours wouldn't last 5 minutes on my track. It was 40 (exactly) in the shade today, and that felt really good compared to the track (except the track was more fun).

OK, to be fair, those of you tracking in milder climates may do OK with other compromises.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:59 PM   #71
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So how necessary is this for a setup like mine. 300 +/- HP, no hood vents, well sealed radiator cowling. I know that doesn't affect oil temps as much but I'm just giving you an idea of what I'm working with.

I won't be doing a ton of track days due to travelling/access, but what is the potential of damage while doing the occasional track day?

I do plan on getting this eventually, just trying to decide if I should put money towards this or some Wilwood calipers for the front first.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:09 PM   #72
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There is nothing in principle wrong with the laminova coolers for our application. It is quite possible to build flat-out naturally aspirated miatas that have significant, sometimes problematic excess radiator cooling capacity - witness Crusher. Relating anything to Crusher is somewhat risky, because it was quite specialized, and Thunderhill in December is quite cold. But if you duct the incoming air properly, extract the resulting hot air properly, and run a reroute, you can have more cooling capacity than you need.

120wk is ~ 160hp, which is pretty healthy. I am assuming naturally aspirated?

I think there's room for reasonable debate on how best to plumb one of these into our cars. It's a different design approach than running multiple dedicated air heat exchangers. I lack enough detailed information to make a reasonable decision. Yes, running the radiator outlet through the laminova heats the water going into the engine - but he has a point. If you're seeing thermostat-temp water exiting the engine, everything's fine in terms of total heat.

Gee- where are you currently measuring coolant and oil temperatures?

On my car, the ECU (stock sender location) on a ~28C day reported 102C(204) max water temps, and about 115C(240) on oil. This is with no oil cooling whatsoever. I would not consider my car to have the necessary headroom on radiator capacity to install a laminova.

However, given an effective enough radiator solution, the end resulting temp of water entering the engine from a radiator --> laminova --> engine path may be no greater than it was before with a less effective radiator solution.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:38 PM   #73
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Savington, it has pegged back the 120+ temps that I had previously (without any cooling) so I have no problem with its effectiveness. But the big benefit to me was the ability to get the oil temperature up quickly, without lots of idling etc.

Like I said above, you need the surplus cooling capacity. If you have it, I do not understand the 'not desirable' comment?

I am not preaching here. You don't like it, I never said it was for everyone. But it is an option, and it is working for me.
I'm sure your unit works well to bring oil temps up. I've never seen the need to add a unit specifically for that reason, especially since the stock 1.8L unit does the exact same job at ~$0 cost to most owners.

If you have surplus cooling capacity with an MSM radiator, you may not need an oil cooler at all. Most of the users in this section (Race Prep) are capable of badly overheating a stock Miata with a stock MSM radiator, let alone a 120kw+ car with the same unit. IOW, most of us do not have surplus cooling capacity. Even 55mm Koyos are not enough for some of the 40*C days we run in California/Texas/etc. Hence my comment: For most applications, pushing the oil cooling load onto the engine coolant system is not desirable.

I'm sure your unit works well, for your application. Your application is clearly unique (light track use in moderate temps with an emphasis on fast warmup for road use) and is likely not applicable to many users here. Nothing against you, just commenting on why your setup may be ideal for you and totally wrong for someone else.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:34 AM   #74
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Great thread, I've been researching this topic off and on for months and it's great to have more real-world info.

Andrew mentions earlier that the sandwich plate is an adequate alternative to the sump location, but how close are they? Has anyone ever measured oil temp at the sandwich plate vs sump in the same vehicle? Either at the same time, or different times under similar conditions? I'm curious as to whether there's a few degrees difference, or something more significant.

My car is not a track car, but I beat on it mercilessly in the mountains. I'm measuring at a sandwich plate and seeing temperatures similar to what williams805 mentioned earlier (260*+) when I'm out driving. If for instance it's actually 20* warmer at the plate than average, then I'm not going to sweat it. If it's <5*, then I guess it's time to install a cooler.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:32 AM   #75
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Installing a Laminova to make it perfect for all possible cases is hard.

The is one special case where it can be unwise to place it in the coolant path controlled by the thermostat. Extreme cold rallying have showed that you can overheat the oil since the water flow is too small with a closed thermostat.

There are always special cases...

If you install a too big Laminova on the water path into the radiator, you will never overcool the oil, regardless of condition.

Tracking when 100-110F in the shade sounds brutal. Simple solution, don't!
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Old 08-18-2014, 10:10 AM   #76
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Tracking when 100-110F in the shade sounds brutal. Simple solution, don't!
That's not how we roll
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Old 08-18-2014, 10:52 AM   #77
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Andrew mentions earlier that the sandwich plate is an adequate alternative to the sump location, but how close are they? Has anyone ever measured oil temp at the sandwich plate vs sump in the same vehicle? Either at the same time, or different times under similar conditions? I'm curious as to whether there's a few degrees difference, or something more significant.
Curious about this myself. My assumption (emphasis on assumption) is that the sandwich plate would measure about 10F+ hotter. I say this because our oil pans are finned and exposed to the air and an oil pan temp sensor is probably in an area of more stagnant oil vs. the actively circulating oil in the sandwich plate. Would love to know for sure.

Quote:
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Tracking when 100-110F in the shade sounds brutal. Simple solution, don't!
"Don't" means staying off the track for a large part of the year. Not gonna' happen. Plus, I have lots of good, hispanic Melanin in my skin blondie!

Last edited by hornetball; 08-18-2014 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:03 AM   #78
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Andrew do you have any pictures of this installed . Would there be any issue mounting this in the opening in the bumper in front of condenser ? I currently have the fog light holes supplying air to my brake ducts and I use the a/c once in a blue moon .
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Old 08-18-2014, 08:13 PM   #79
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120wk is ~ 160hp, which is pretty healthy. I am assuming naturally aspirated?
Yes

Quote:
Gee- where are you currently measuring coolant and oil temperatures?
Oil temp measured at the remote filter (on exit from engine), water on coolant reroute piping after thermostat.

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...the stock 1.8L unit does the exact same job at ~$0 cost to most owners.
Not in my experience - they may work on the same principle, but that is about as far as it goes. The Laminova has lots more heating/cooling capacity, and that was reflected in the temperatures I was seeing before/after the installation, and the increased speed of heating of the oil on startup.

I agree that it is not for everyone, and in the case you describe I probably would never have seriously considered it.
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Old 08-18-2014, 08:44 PM   #80
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Curious about this myself. My assumption (emphasis on assumption) is that the sandwich plate would measure about 10F+ hotter. I say this because our oil pans are finned and exposed to the air and an oil pan temp sensor is probably in an area of more stagnant oil vs. the actively circulating oil in the sandwich plate. Would love to know for sure.
My recollection of various m.net threads in the past was that people have seen +20F at the oil filter location compared to the sump. A quick use of my google fu found one of the threads I remembered: Oil temperature differences between the sump and the oil filter

An oil filter sandwich plate appears to be the place to measure oil temp if you are wanting peak live temp readings. The sump reads lower and fluctuates less.
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