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Old 09-20-2012, 01:45 PM   #21
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Ah the old Power vs. Armstrong steering debate in autox.

You have the guys that swear by power steering and think anyone who gives it up is crazy. Then you have the guys that like the "feel" of a manual rack.

Then you have the guys in the SM classes that don't have ROOM for power steering, and then end up depowering their power rack on top because they don't believe anything. Don't do this, don't be like me.

Either way, if the difference is 6lbs, just keep it and remember to take a pre-race dump.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:48 PM   #22
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I'm already trying to figure out where to stick the mr2 PS pump that will go in at some point in the future at the same time as an NB subframe and power rack.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:50 PM   #23
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I'm trying to figure out what sort of workout routine i need to adopt to deal with the 275 A6s on the front of a FWD Macstrut car using a depowered quick ratio rack.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:57 PM   #24
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I agree CSP is a fast class, that is why I'd like to be there. Plus my only other option is SSM and a lot the fast SSM cars are in the Southeast. Rather run in CSP in the southeast and maybe walk a way with the some tires from Tours.

I think the biggest advantage to PS in a CSP is the quicker steering ratio. With the new found power in CSP, the extra drag of a PS isn't as a big a hit as it used to be.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:32 PM   #25
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I choose CSP because, like all of us, I like Miatas. This is my first car build, despite the fact that I am well on the high side of a half century. Information and parts are readily available. I am no alien so getting a trophy at national is not in the cards for me. The CSP sure will be fun on our parking lot courses though.
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:43 PM   #26
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Leafy,
Google cheap autocross car sometime. The answer is always Miata of course. How wrong that assumption can be
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:57 PM   #27
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I put a spreadsheet to estimate the cost of a competitive CSP car. Based on parts alone, it would be around $15,000-17,000. That is assuming you pick up a cheap 90-93 and that you don't sell and of the components you swap out. Almost 1/3 of that cost is the dampers/coil overs.

I am curious if anyone has tried to under drive the power steering pump to decrease the pressure and reduce the number of hose failures.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:04 PM   #28
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Thats a pretty low cost. Figure 3500 for head work (what an e-stock spec head costs in labor, so an estimate) + what it costs to get the bottom end re-built to spec, whatever penskees or tripple adjustable xidas. 2 sets of 15x10's with 275 A6, 1 set of 15x9 with h2os, aero, seats, flat top, ecu, custom intake, rb header, custom header back, tubular control arms, that air craft alternator that some people run, a light weight battery, the voodoo that you do to the power steering to make it last, swisscheese brakes, getting the correct fd and tranny combo, big front sway bar. That'll get you mid pack with some good driving.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:37 PM   #29
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Blah. You are talking about 100% car, which only a few exist. The driver counts for a lot more than that last 5%. Fraiser is an example of that. My estimate was to make a competitive car, not a 100%

Built motor: You're going to get 90% of your power on a stock motor. I can tell you Darby's car on 93 was within 15whp of Schenker's now.
Dampers: I agree that, that's why 1/3 of the budget is there.
15x10's: Why do you need two sets? At most you need one extra mounted in case of a catastrophic flat mid heat.
15x9's: Not that expensive from Tire rack.
Aero: I built an ASP spoiler from aluminum scrap for less than $100. Assume the splitter is around the same, maybe a little more.
Intake/Header/Exhaust: That was in my estimate (though I used a Honda IM in my estimate with some DIY work from friends)
Control Arms: Not as important, I'd only replace them if the stock ones were damaged
Stock alternator works fine.
Battery: Give me something that starts the car every time. I hated carrying the jump box for Darby's car just in case it didn't start. Puts too much stress on the driver before the run.
PS pulley wasn't in my estimate.
Brakes: My estimate was just 1.6 brakes and FM Little BBK.
Transmission and Final Drive: Just talk to people ahead of time.

Darby's car didn't include many of the items above and I finished well into the trophies. I've been around auto-x for years and I've seen drivers with less prepared cars win over 100% because of the driver.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:22 PM   #30
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15 HP is a lot in csp. You need the control arms to get enough camber. The pulley isnt the way to fix the ps (not sure its even legal). And yeah the aero parts are 100 for the big items but stays and mounting add up to almost as much as the big pieces. You also need a trailer and a hard top. Hard top only for transport and monsoons.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:38 PM   #31
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My estimation was based off what I already own (like a tow vehicle, trailer, hardtop, and certain spares). The spoiler was less than $100 with the stays. You can get enough camber without control arms. The only benefits to the arms besides the weight is a being able to control the camber without changing the tow and without increasing the track width.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:42 PM   #32
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Well no. The arms let you get more camber than the ~2.7* that you can get at that ride height normally.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:48 PM   #33
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Ok. You race on paper and I'll just drive.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:34 PM   #34
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Now why not take this a step further and improve the power steering? Imagine steering with 2 fingers?
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:05 AM   #35
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Because you still want some steering feel, you're not driving miss daisy in a Lincoln town car.
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:18 PM   #36
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you just want the feel to tell when the tires are slipping?

your whole body should be able to feel that.






Driving newer cars that dont feel as connected as older cars you learn to drive it and it is a lot easier physically on you over a weekend.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compaddict View Post
Shorter belt!
gtfo, where do I get this mystical belt that fits?
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:50 PM   #38
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:29 PM   #39
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I measured with a piece of hose! I was off a bit though...
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #40
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Grassy ***.
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