The 13.5:1 200whp 2.0L is the one in Taxi but with 11.0:1 pistons. Should make 180 or so on gas. We no longer offer built engines, just our CNC heads. Logistics for complete engines were too time-consuming and the program was just not cost-effective.

Trackspeed Bulletproof shortblocks + CNC head = match made in heaven

Another tidbit. The smaller and lighter starter doesn't quite clear the Quaife B series bell housing. It looks like you could do a bunch of grinding to both bell housing and starter frame to make it work. NA starter drops right in so that's what we used.

We're using the Quaife supplied gear position indicator/ temp gauge. So far, it's refusing our attempts to make it read anything other than 6th. The Geartronics aluminum shift knob/load cell is shaped like a dildo.

That is all.

First drive with the Quaife. Noisy as hell. Beautiful noise but its like 105db of gear whine in every gear except 5th which is direct and nearly as quiet as a stock trans. Each shift comes with a mighty clunk. No flat shift yet. Load cell doesn't output a signal that MS likes. Working on a signal converter. Gear position indicator reads "N" in all gears. Have to pull the trans to reach the sensor. Argh.

Upshift is back. Go forward until it stops. Pull release and shove forward into neutral. Do that again and you're in reverse. Even without the flat shift is nutty fast ripping through the gears and just slapping the clutch. Its fitting that this engine has race cams. Soft down low then hits with a whack at 4500. Rough street tune for now. Dyno in a few days.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5c9bd488c1.jpg

A little jelly, I must admit.

It'll be at MRLS. You drive.

So much win, cannot wait to see this thing running at full tilt.

We demand videos!!!

Noises
 

Yesssssss...those noises.

noises indeed. Possibly the best part lol.

I'll be looking into this trans when I brake my current trans with too many FFS! Quiet gears, though.

Emilio, your facial hair looks bad ass. I like it better than clean shaven for your face.

That gearbox is absolutely godly. Real racecar shit.

Sweet baby jesus it's amazing.

Are you guys clutching upshifts because you're getting used to it or because the quaife requires it? Drove some crosscarts recently fitted with motorcycle engines/transmissions and only had to use the clutch to get moving, after that it was just a lift to shift up and blip to shift down.

Are you rev-matching on downshifts? I have gotten used to slipper clutch and no engine braking on downshifting my motorcycle so that downshifts don't upset it so much. Wow, I hate to say it, but that might just be worth living with for a dual purpose vehicle; I can't imagine banging shifts like that would ever get old.

The alloy shift knob contains a load cell that outputs a 2-3V signal to indicate for or aft pressure. The Megasquirt MS3 Pro cant use that signal for ign cut without either custom firmware or a signal converter. We're working on the latter. Meanwhile, you can indeed shift without the clutch just by lifting but it's hard on the trans and rough. Quaife explicitly warns against clutchless shifting without a fuel or ign cut. As its not an inexpensive piece of equipment, we're "babying" it by just fanning the clutch until we can get the flatshift working. It'll be ign cut so we'll get nice unburned fuel in the exhaust pops and crackles to go along with the clanks and spur gear whines. We're thinking of sticking the Quaife into Vegas for the 2017 T25. 300whp and the sequential. BOV and EFR intake noises added to this should be an eargasm.

How much voltage on for and how much voltage on aft?

I will have to check to be certain, but it is 2.5V resting and approximately +/- .7V at the force required to initiate the shift. In an ideal world, we would be able to tweak the point at which ignition cut happens... maybe 3.0V works better than 3.2V, but we won't know until we try it out.

Well get back to me and you'll (probably) have a solution faster than you think.

The 2.5V at rest is firm. I can try to get a datalog of the shifts tomorrow if needed. I have it wired on analog input 1. The ideal solution would be a field to input the ignition cut voltage for upshift. I don't think it is needed for downshift, all we have to do is unload the transmission. Emilio may chime in if he wants something for it in software.

And thanks for any help you can give us.

If we are going to do a firmware revision then we might as well have an input for decel too. Doing that correctly involves a stepper motor plugged in to the ECU for throttle blipping or DBW. That's actually quite a bit more complex to tune and I don't plan on dealing with it. For street I will just use the clutch for downshifts. Left-foot braking on the street doesn't really work when you're braking lightly. On the track however you are threshold braking and the right foot throttle blip to downshift actually works. So I think we will be able to survive without the decel portion. Since we are sort of blazing new ground here I think in the next year or two there will be a handful of others who step up to utilize the 60 or 90 G in a Miata. They could make use of whatever firmware Dmitri comes up with Ford downshifting if they do DBW or add the stepper motor for throttle blipping.

Enable and configure loop1 in the generic programmable outputs as shown here:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ae73d63250.png

Then select loop1 as the input for the shift cut.

Done.

If you want it on downshifts too - just set the additional condition to "Or" and set the actual condition to "sensor01" "<" "2.8" "0.1" or whatever figures you need.

So full of win here. Can't wait to see/hear this thing flipping through the gears at the track.

As expensive as it seems to us with meager budgets, honestly, you're getting a LOT for your money with this trans. I spoke with Xtrac juuuuuust for grins to find out what their sequential transaxle setup costs from the PWC GT3 ATS-V.Rs (same trans would conceivably bolt up to an LFX/LF3). The transaxle, AGS pneumatic shift system, accessories, service parts, etc is an easy $100K / car :eek:

DBW is supported in the new code. But requires an external controller. The safety issues with DBW are too much for msextra to take on themselves. The code comes with a disclaimer that there is no guarantee that there wont be incorrect commands sent, and that the controller should be able to handle out of bounds CAN commands safely.

Wish there were something like an objective comparison between this, the Elite IL300, and the Sadev SCL82-17. Not that I'll have the cash for any of them for a while, but they seem pretty similar in terms of capability/cost.

Drool....so jelly

You're kidding right? There are literally only a dozen or so people who would even be in the market for one. I can't see any unbiased source spending the money to perform any sort of controlled testing or evaluation. In our case, the choice was simple. Quaife offers a PnP kit. The QBE60G is proven box and just within our budget. I'd love an Xtrac or something world class but don't happen to have 40k laying around for a Miata transmission :P

A friend use an Elite behind a Rover V8.
It needs transmission mounts in every section or you will snap the long bolts. Took some years to learn.

Even if they are rare in Miatas, you can extrapolate from other installations.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm griping or expecting something free - I know I'm not going to get that sort of testing without shelling out something like 40k for all 3 boxes and a bunch of test days (which I don't have). I'm just looking down my build list and seeing a space labelled "proper transmission" and... well, there's a few options I can stretch to, but I don't think I can get a second one if I choose wrong the first time, you know? It's intimidating.

Yikes, to heck with that. IL300 I assume? I'd hoped that looking at over-specifying in terms of torque would be safer, but doesn't sound like it. The annoying thing about Elite is that, over here in the US, I have a hell of a time finding any reports on it other than people in the UK being annoyed at the IL200 and then other people telling them they should have sprung for the IL300 because it'd be bulletproof.

One persons experience is not the full truth, but anecdotes helps build a picture.

No racing box will be bullet proof or service free. And the intervals of services are much shorter than for an OEM 6speed, and we're not talking oil change here.

My friend have used the Elite during four Seasons and it's been to Elite twice for more involved service/part replacements. Besides all the work he done himself.

I have a vintage dogbox built into an RX-7 case that I ended up having to spend a lot of R&D time on because there haven't been any parts made since the 80s and the guy who did them in his shed died some years back - so I'm familiar with that racing boxes won't be bulletproof or service free (and would really prefer something that parts exist for) "Needing transmission mounts in every section" sounds like a big design flaw though.

I think the PnP kit is worth its weight in gold. Stock driveshaft, correct length, shifter is where its supposed to be, bolts right up to B series block. That's at least 2 weeks worth of custom fab work and guessing what parts to order, eliminated. The QBE90G is around 120lbs IIRC, good for 750bhp for those aiming past 350whp. I have a feeling though, that the 60G being rated for 375bhp will probably tolerate another 100bhp without issue.

Exactly what I was getting at with my previous post. Serious value there.

I may have missed it, what's the 60G weigh?

85 lbs I think. Just a bit more than an AZ-6.

FWIW, when I was considering a sequential for my FRS, there were 3 pnp companies to choose from:
Quaife qbe60/69g, Drenth, and Hollinger.
The Drenth and Hollinger were literally 3x more expensive than the Quaife and had no perceived performance advantage.

Then , when you consider the sheer amount of Quaifes in use world wide and the a available spares - it becomes even more of a bargain.

If the rules would allowit, I would seriously consider a Quaife for the Miata.

And it looks like they have a helical gear set for those that don't want screaming gears? I don't know what that is giving up though.

Some percentage goes into heat.
Energy lost as sound doesn't need cooling :p

Not heat.

Thrust.

Helical gears try to move the shafts longitudinally. Spur gears dont.

So more drivetrain loss with helical.

The helical vs spur (straight cut) debate depends on whether they are the same size or not and dog vs syncro engagement.The spur is usually a dog engagement, Helicals usually syncro which requires the gear to be a bit narrower. Narrower - less torque capacity. If both gears are the same width, the helical actually has more surface area so it would have greater torque capacity. This is assuming the resultant thrust loads are dealt with adequately. In the case of the QBE60G, the case is designed with bearings to accommodate those thrust loads. In the case of the QBE60G, the helical box is also dog engagement. So in theory at least, has greater surface area than the same width spur gear thus greater torque capacity and less noise. Everything else being equal, spur gears transmit torque more efficiently and run cooler as Dave mentioned. This is the reason I chose spur. Also because it sounds bitchin.

Thanks Emillio! Learned a bunch just from that snippet. Would give a cat, but can't do that on mobile.

And yeah, the sound is amazing.

One nitpick, and this is one that I didn't find out until I came across some guy from X-Trac talking about it. If both gears are the same and have the same pitch, this is true... but the limit on automotive gears tends to be fracturing at the root of the gear tooth and not contact stress on the faces. And because of geometry and manufacturing you can have a bigger pitch (which is to say less teeth per inch of diameter) on the spur gears than the helical gears, which means much bigger roots.

There is also another huge advantage with spur gear: misalignment tolerance.

Helical gears dont tolerate gear misalignment (case flex, shaft flex) anywhere near as well as spur gears do.

Efficiency and strength vs NVH

When doing gear analysis using the AGMA design methodology, spur gears usually end up having about 98% efficiency, which means put in 200HP of power, you get 196HP to the output shaft and 4HP of goes to heat. That's about 10,000 BTU. Helical gears usually have about 96% efficiency, so for the same 200HP in, you get 192HP to the output shaft and 8HP of heat, or 20,000BTU. That's something to consider.

If you can afford the Quaife, you could consider a transmission cooler setup cheap insurance if your approaching the HP rating. I would absolutely run a cooler if you are putting more than the HP rating through this awesome beast. With that said I will probably never be able to justify such a large expense on a miata trans. The video has some serious drool value though, and will be much better when you get your dildo shift knob working properly :giggle:

Setrab diff and trans coolers with integrated fans and thermostats in trunk.

Dude drivetrain loss is heat.

Got the flat shift working. Still using clutch on downshift. Credit to Dmitri for pointing us to an auxiliary control loop in MS to use as a switch.

Now that's what I am talking about! The rev drops (lack of really) between shifts are amazing! I can only imagine how sweet that marriage would be in my setup with the narrower powerband of the Rotrex.

I have the ign cut set at 100ms right now and we're running our Supermiata B6 Sportclutch and light flywheel. That's fast but we might be able to trim that down. We just received some very promising prototype organic discs for our twin. Those will go in which will lower MOI quite a bit. Then we'll start dialing back the ign cut interval and see where the limit is. The engine hasn't been tuned yet and isn't actually pulling all that hard on top. Dyno tomorrow.

Very interested in riding in this at mrls. Sounds awesome. Also interested in organic discs. I just had mine slip the other day. And want an extra set on hand for swapping.

Yes, anything thats not forward motion eventually becomes heat if you want to get super technical.

But before it becomes heat, there needs to be friction and there is more friction when there are thrust loads etc etc etc.


Bottom line - spur gear is more efficient than a helical gear.

Did you get the gear indicator working?

Can I keep my current twin 5.5 clutch with the sequential? It's VERY light and would help with shifting.

I looked at the exchange rate yesterday after seeing your video. It's still very favorable. Once my next big deal closes I am going to pull the trigger.

Any clutch and flywheel that fit an 89-05 Miata, fit the QBE60G Miata kit.

$9K at current exchange rates seems like a positive bargain compared to the $12K quoted earlier in this thread. :)

--Ian

That's roughly ten AZ-6's, not including labor and event fees/hotel rooms that do not get refunded when your car goes bang.

Got it to the dyno yesterday. Was hoping for 180whp on pump gas. Fell a bit short. I want to fiddle with the intake pipe set up and spend a bit more time on the VVT table above 5000rpm. Motor only has about an hour on it so it's still a bit tight.
Still, lots of fun :)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...81d83836b4.jpg

You could hear the gear whine from anywhere in the paddock. It was hilarious and awesome.

"There goes taxi again"

So great to see the trans in action. It's really taking the Miata to a whole new level!