Quaife Sequential for NA & NB
 

Quaife came out with this last year. https://shop.quaife.co.uk/gearboxes?...e=13&vehicle=4 They offer 4 different options for the NA/NB. The 375bhp limit it's somewhat restrictive though. The weight looks to be the same as a stock 6 speed.

The price is pretty tough to swallow. After seeing my friends BMW converted to sequential I had to peak at our options. One can only dream. :-)

I'd like to get one for the OGK. We will see how the budget looks in 6 months

Interesting that they measure capacity in horsepower. Torque is what kills things.

I was thinking the same thing. The HP may still create heat though. Maybe that's why they rate it that way.

That would be epic!

^ This.

Yes, it's possible to instantly shatter a gear by applying eleventeen-hundred ft/lbs of torque to it with sticky tires and an adequate rear suspension.

But the track crowd, who seem to be the ones killing 6-speeds most frequently, have demonstrated that it's not hard to do so with levels of torque and HP comparable to what many of us run reliably on the street through 5-speeds. The difference would appear to be that they are producing said HP on a nearly continual basis for tens of minutes or even hours, rather than in short bursts of a few seconds at a time.

It's this continual HP production which leads to the generation of heat in the gearbox. Heat softens things, reduces the effectiveness of the lubricant, changes mechanical tolerances, etc.

It's rough rating anyway. When it breaks you have applied too much.

But just assuming the rating is focused around a 8-8.5krpm engine, not a 5.5krpm 7L engine.

Wonder how much longer a 6 speed would last with a transmission cooler.

Asking the right question. Though "how much" is about impossible to quantify right now but that is the big question.

How about a slightly different question: Would a 6 speed last ANY LONGER with a transmission cooler?

I would say yes. There are high powered cars that are stock with a warranty that have transmission cooler.

I made a transmission cooler thread a while back, it's somewhere on here.

I think a cooler would extend the life for sure. I also think a traditional trans mount would help as well. I can't help but think the case is twisting slightly when things get hot. Would love to hear some thoughts from BBundy or other engineers.

I dont know about the qbe60g but the 69g comes with an internal spray bar.

Makes a huge difference.

For my K24 build, I chose to go with the S2K trans for a variety of reasons, one of which is down the road Id like to either replace the gearst or go with a stand alone dog box.

D

The69G is rated to 750HP.Should be plenty but eye watering in price.


Sequential gearbox packages for Honda S2000, Mazda MX-5 (NA/NB,) Nissan Silvia SR20DET and Toyota 1JZ / 2JZ Supra. - Quaife

No flat shifting but here is the 60G in action.

nom nom that noise!!!

Holy shit, yes.

That was my thought. Built whammy engine. C30-94 Rotrex on corn. No roof, maybe 1750lbs, many aeros. 15x10 6UL's and 245/40/15 R7's and the pile of 245/580R15 R80's I won a few years back. Much like the 200whp ITB motor we just built, it has no logical reason to exist and won't make me any money. But if I can make it happen, I will. Figure 15s under SM lap records or thereabouts.
Epic is a good word for it.

Do it for the grins? And to set records?

That was the other half of my dream.

Someday my wallet will match my ambitions.

In light of Emilio taking the plunge I am bumping this thread back to life.

I am also going to drink the cool aid in late March. Honestly it's not that expensive after selling off both of my 6 speed transmissions. Money is finally starting to loosen up so this should be a good year for racing.

I am lost on how to handle the flat shift and auto blipping with the MS3. I am hoping the ECU supports that. Thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Not natively, no drive by wire support. You could maybe hook up some sort of setup to blip the throttle on clutch input. You would need something to mechanically pull the cable though.

I ordered the geartronics load cel embedded in a shift knob in the 1/2" Quaife size. That voltages will trigger ign cut. Having driven dog boxes, you can just left foot brake, blipping while downshifting. The load cell will cut ign but I think it won't be needed on downshifts so much. We'll see if it works. I don't want to have to build a DBW system for it. Anyway, most cars running the QBE60G are not DBW and they work just fine.

Found this page for flat shifting with sequential in MS3 Pro. Combined with the load sensing shift knob it looks pretty simple.

I'm actually planning on picking one up when I start my Catfish build in a couple years. Gotta save my $$$$ now.

What does one do about the PPF mounts. Does it have something for them that I don't see it in the pics on their site, do you ditch it, fab something, or ???? Just curious. Guess I'll have to see what Emilio does on OGK.

Dunno yet. Based on the drawings, we will have to fabricate a mount adapter.
The Quaife kit only addresses the trans adaption and shifter location, not the PPF mounts. We want to keep the PPF but are toying with the idea of ditching it. Of course we would then have to engineer and fab new trans and diff mounts.

Throw a whole custom PPF into the mix of fabbing options. Could be easier than an adapter.

I like the idea of keeping the PPF. I also like the idea of adding a trans brace. I feel confident Terry at Altered Acceleration will whip something really cool up for me.

Can't wait to pull the trigger on this!!!

Little update

Top of case was a bit too tall to fit within PPF and also too tall to fit in tunnel. We set PPF height per FSM procedure on OEM trans then measured output shaft centerline relative to the tub. Idea was to put Quaife output shaft in exactly the same spot as OEM. Matching output shaft heights meant cutting about a 26 x 6" strip of the tub out forward of the shifter port. That wasn't happening so we deciding to check u joint angles and delta between the two with the Quaife lowered enough to clear the tub. We hoped it would still fall within acceptable range. Measured pinion angle relative to ground then output shaft. They were within .2°. Total angle of DS was right near zero

For those not familiar, it's nice too have a u joint angle below about 7° if possible, although rock crawlers and lifted 4Xs run as high as 20°. More importantly, you want whatever angle the DS leaves the trans to be matched on the diff end within about 1°. Google that but basically, the u joint tip changes its speed as it spins around because of an elliptical path. U joints being offset 90° will cancel those speed differentials out provided the two sine waves are the same pitch & amplitude. So.. OEM is under 3° DS angle and under 1° delta between the two, ours is closer to .5° so basically a straight shot from trans to diff. So no hacking out of tub, phew. Should have the PPF adapter thing built in a few days. We'll post pics.

So you're saying the trans and diff are parallel to each other within 0.5 degrees? (example tailshaft down 2* from horizontal, diff up 1.5* = 0.5* difference from parallel = good) That's what you want. Also the U-joints need to be in phase, lined up with each other on the drive shaft, not 90* out of phase. Out of phase will induce torsional vibration, and angles not parallel will do the same.

^+1

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1461902595

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1461902595

Driveshaft is our standard Miata. We are close to zero-zero, the top example. All is good.

I've always heard that dead zero angles will eat the U-joints since the needles never move.

Move the engine+trans a little towards the passenger side? The parallelism can be in any direction :)

Very cool E! Thanks for the update.

That is correct, with it perfectly inline there will be no rotation in the bearing. Needs about 1* to get them moving.

Dropping this here for educational purposes related to why Emilio is trying to get the angles perfect.

Huh.

I'd never even thought about this before, and was having a hard time visualizing it. But having watched the video, it makes perfect sense.

I feel like an utter moron. An enlightened moron, but a moron none the less.

:likecat:

By pure dumb luck we ended up just off zero for the drive shaft angle and right at zero for the included angle. We're going to measure once it's all mocked up again to make sure our DS is not exactly at zero.

On a related note for anyone with mysterious driveline vibrations, set your PPF height according to the FSM and compensate for crunched frames rails (they're the reference).

Jesus I can't count how many times I've swapped a trans and had never taken this into consideration. Not to mention positioning the FE3, dumb luck for everyone!

So we learned something interesting about the NA/NB while measuring our final driveshaft position. Our target parallel angle was 1° which is where we are. While measuring it, we noticed the OEM NA/NB driveshaft angle is 1° laterally. Looking forward form diff, the shaft angles towards pax side just a bit. Not sure if the diff mounts are angled, or the diff casting is asymetric. Looks like the OEM shaft is actually 0° vertically but right at the ideal 1° laterally. We ended up with that same lateral offset as well.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1463438859

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1463438859

I'd love to say Mazda did it to balance the car with just a driver, and they may have, but my Tundra has a similarly angled driveshaft for some reason. It creates a vibration at certain speeds.

They angled it at 1* for universal joint life.

Zero angles is hard on U-joints. They like smallish equal angles.

So when is the SuperMiata Version of the Quaife Conversion kit going to be come available. Just blew up my first 6 speed for the year. Made for a very short Track day last weekend. I Have 5 more :) thankfully. I should'nt be to upset, it lasted a full year.

Haha, never. The number of worldwide Miata owners willing to spend $12k on a transmission kit can be counted on one hand. Beyond that there is no margin whatsoever. Not a small margin, no margin. If you are one of the folks with that kind of budget, I would suggest contacting Hitech in Irvine for a duplicate of the mounts they made for us.

Offering a "kit" makes zero sense from a business POV. Emilio was kind enough to share his journey so followers like myself are not going in blind. Props E!

Any drive time on the Quaife yet Emilio?

Emilio, which lever type did you choose? QGE60G00X where X denotes lever type.

Which Geartronics gear knob load cell did you get? The line one? Geartronics - Sequential gearbox electronic systems - Flatshift Pro . Where did you install it? The geartronics paddleshift system seems heavily overpriced but I suppose it is a niche market.

The lever shown in the picture. It is also in the bill of materials for the Miata kit, not sure what the part number is. I contacted geartronics and asked them to send me a shift knob with the correct thread for the lever. That is all I purchased from them, we are not using their Electronics.

Thank you Miataturbo for teaching me that knob (k n o b) is a dirty word.

When I clicked through on their page previously, I didn't see it listed in the kits. Looks like it is QBE60G-Maz0X where there is X=1-4 and the variables are helical vs straight cut and double overdrive vs direct / overdrive. I'm assuming dog / straight cut gears for yours. What ratio set did you choose? (direct / overdrive or double overdrive) .

Spur, closest ratio set.

Thanks! Looks like QBE60G-Maz02 . I see multiple gear sets offered there and then different options on their spec sheet.

These are the gear ratio sets I saw. Is the first one the one you got? The last one I only saw in the spec sheet that didn't seem to be Miata specific.
Spur 2.400 1.840 1.482 1.260 1.104 1.000
Spur 2.240 1.694 1.333 1.150 1.000 0.889
Spur 2.240 1.840 1.482 1.260 1.104 1.000

Yes, I am serious about this gearbox after I go through my existing 6 speeds.

2.769 2.057 1.579 1.260 1:1 0.889 & Spur.

I assume you will do the math for your project and decide what works best for you.

Pick your ratios based on your needs, your power output, your car setup, the tracks your race schedule will take you to... etc.

Thanks! You assume correctly.

I completely agree. I can't imagine someone plunking down $12k+ for this trans without running extensive calculation and analysis.

I'm surprised you guys just didnt use a tilton release bearing instead of the fork and miata hydros.

Trying to keep things simple. OEM actuation will work just fine, no need to reinvent. Let us know how the Tilton works on your Quaife Sequential.

Yay Brexit! These Quaifes are now more affordable than ever!

I look forward to the day you get it rolling E! Remind me again what motor this will be paired with?

Don't remind me, I bought it about 2 months too early didn't I? For now it's going into Taxi with a 180 horse 2 liter. The plan was to go into the OGK but frankly I think the ogk might not get built for a few years now. We have sort of switched gears and are focused on building our S1. That said, our S1 will be built to be somewhat competitive in ST2 and ST3 so we can drop the Quaife into it and have some fun once or twice a year with the Vettes.

Should be fun in Taxi! With the sequential that 180hp will catch a few by surprise. I've been following the S1 build specs. Should be a fun series! I was really hoping to see Whammy with that sequential in a capable chassis. If you still have the motor when my $$$ loosens up at the end of the year it's gonna be mine! I'll then complete the pairing.