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Old 11-03-2011, 09:31 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ScottFW View Post
After running through a couple sets of the XP10/8 combo I am growing weary of dealing with them. No problems with heat or fade on track (stock power), but the transfer layer with these pads will give you **** if you look at it cross-eyed. I installed mine on fresh rotors (Carbotech's instructions are explicit in this regard, some of you should try reading them) so there would be no issues from incompatible pad material, bedded them properly, etc. Even with a transfer layer that is initially even, over the course of a track weekend I've had it either build up or wear down (or combination of both) in an uneven manner to the point of being visually obvious on the rotor face, and causing annoying pedal pulsations. I generally like the pads except for the transfer layer BS, but that's kind of like saying the federal budget is generally in good shape except for all the debt.
Between my brother and I we went through 3 sets of Carbotechs. Same thing you describe, horrific break-in (even when done to-the-letter!), and crazy transfer over the course of a weekend. As a bonus, the pads wore 1/2-way down on my Civic and were completely trashed on his 240SX after ONE weekend. We said "**** THAT" and moved on. Cobalt gets my vote these days.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:42 AM   #22
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I had two sets of Carbotech pads, $150 each per axle, and I don't think I've ever been more pissed off. I wasted the first session bedding the brakes, then on the 3rd session they basically stopped working, it turns out the backing plate bent and the XP12 compound wore away. For the next day, I started fresh, those pads lasted another 3 sessions. I called to complain and of course they told me I didn't know how to bed pads. I know the procedure, checked to make sure there was a transfer layer on the rotor, and tried again.

The end result is clear, if the bedding process is so complex that conventional bedding methodologies don't apply, then I'm no longer going to take a $150 chance on a set of pads. I've been much happier with Hawk DTC-60s. I can run them on any used rotor and they work, I can beat the **** out of them, I can overheat them, the never taper, they last a very long time, they're $60 for the Wilwood shape, and you can ever store them in the same room as another pad compound.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:31 PM   #23
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and you can ever store them in the same room as another pad compound.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:55 PM   #24
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It's actually really easy to imagine - Carbotechs are not a metallic-based compound like every other race pad, so you can't break them in like every other race pad.
Which is why I dislike using Carbotech.

Seriously, Try using Cobalt Friction.

Put them on any rotor that is not cracked and don't bother with bedding them pretty much no matter what other pad has left residue behind on your rotor. They still work smoother and better than a perfectly handled bed in procedure with Carbotech on their own dedicated rotors. They last longer and feel better with more consistency and smoothness to the bite.

Bob

Last edited by bbundy; 11-03-2011 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 11-03-2011, 02:18 PM   #25
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Yep. Why bother with something so finicky and expensive when there are plenty of other options that do the job just as well (or better) for the same price or less and with none of the hassle?
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:45 PM   #26
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Wow, if i would have known Carbotechs were so finicky I would have gone with the Cobalts or Hawks!

I wanted to go with the Performance Friction pads which I absolutely loved on my CTS-V, but they dont make them for the 02 Miata w/ sport brakes...

I'll try either the Cobalts or Hawks after these XPs are trashed.

For those running the Cobalts, what compound are you running on the front/rear?
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:03 AM   #27
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Bob which Cobalt friction compound do you run? Do you street your car to events, or is it track only? Is the dust corrosive or friendly to wheels? Do they eat rotors? I may switch after my current carbotech set is done if they're non-corrosive and reasonably rotor-friendly.

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As I did with my previous track-car, I have been street driving on these pads for the past week to scrub the previous pad material off the face of the rotors, and will be bedding them in at my upcoming DE at Sebring this weekend.
Did you not read any of their instructions re: bedding, or did you simply ignore them? I'm honestly curious here. They explicitly state several times what needs to be done and that the rotors need to be absolutely free of any compound from any non-carbotech pad.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:08 AM   #28
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Bob which Cobalt friction compound do you run? Do you street your car to events, or is it track only? Is the dust corrosive or friendly to wheels? Do they eat rotors? I may switch after my current carbotech set is done if they're non-corrosive and reasonably rotor-friendly.

Did you not read any of their instructions re: bedding, or did you simply ignore them? I'm honestly curious here. They explicitly state several times what needs to be done and that the rotors need to be absolutely free of any compound from any non-carbotech pad.
Yeah I'd like to hear more about the Cobalt Frictions as well. Definitely interested in them for my next set. Plus they make them for the 01-05 Sport brakes, PFC doesnt have anything for them and Hawk has limited compounds (Blues, HT-10s, HT-14s only).

Regarding the bedding instructions... I ignored them, just like I did with my last set of PFC pad "bedding" instructions, which worked great for those pads, and that info on street driving to clean the old material off the rotors was given to me by a PFC employee. Yes the rotor surface needs to be free of any compound of another manufacturer, but they also dont tell you that you can use the abrasive properties of the pad when it is cold to scrub off the old material for liability reasons. I understand that the Carbotech pad material is different from all the other metallic pads on the market, but when you are using the pad under it's temperature range, there isn't any transfer of material from the pad to the rotor surface, so the abrasive properties are the same as any other pad when cold. Them telling you to drive around the street for two weeks on track only pads is a liability for them.

Anyways, not really the point of this thread, it was more about the rear brakes of the Miata and if they use the entire rotor surface, which was answered for me on the first page. Not really worried about what people think about my "rotor cleaning" technique; it works fine for me.

Plus, doesnt seem like following the bedding instructions matters anyways based on peoples reports of the pads extremely short lifetime and finicky material transfer, lol.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:56 AM   #29
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I don't know, my carbotechs have lasted 5 events, or about 23 hours total on track, I am sure they would take me through my next event too, but it would be cutting it close, thats a total of 27 hours. can't ask for much more.

technically, I didn't follow the bedding to the T, but whatever. I am planning to experiment with pads half way through the next year, so we shall see!
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:19 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Track View Post
I don't know, my carbotechs have lasted 5 events, or about 23 hours total on track, I am sure they would take me through my next event too, but it would be cutting it close, thats a total of 27 hours. can't ask for much more.

technically, I didn't follow the bedding to the T, but whatever. I am planning to experiment with pads half way through the next year, so we shall see!
Maybe not following their bedding instructions is the way to go then? lol.

Im sure I'll get more life out of mine than most b/c these sport brakes are OVERKILL for my little stock 1.6L.
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Bob which Cobalt friction compound do you run? Do you street your car to events, or is it track only? Is the dust corrosive or friendly to wheels? Do they eat rotors? I may switch after my current carbotech set is done if they're non-corrosive and reasonably rotor-friendly.

Did you not read any of their instructions re: bedding, or did you simply ignore them? I'm honestly curious here. They explicitly state several times what needs to be done and that the rotors need to be absolutely free of any compound from any non-carbotech pad.
I use Cobalt Friction XR2 front and rear. Spec Miata typically runs combinations of XR3's, 4's and 5's. But I’m going about 30 mph faster at the end of typical long straits. When I drive a Spec Miata it feels like I don’t need to use the brakes much at all.

They are not very friendly to rotors if you use them on the street much and the dust is corrosive. On the track though they are significantly less damaging to rotors than say Hawk Blue and actually have very low wear rate compared to anything else I have tried including Carbotech and nothing has compared to the feel smoothness and consistency. I don’t use them on the street I swap pads at the track while I’m putting on track tires might add 2 to 3 minutes. I run Wilwood BP10/Axxis Ultimates for street and autocross I tried Carbotech AX compound on the street but even those were finicky about bed in and they cost a lot more.

The thing is the bed in procedure with the Cobalts is just be careful for the first couple turns to make sure they make reasonable contact with the rotors and your good to go. Doesn’t seem to matter whether they are new out of the package or what other pad residue was left on your rotor. They are a sintered carbon ceramic compound and they have no binding material so they don’t even stink when they get hot. When I’m done with a track day they leave behind a nice clean and smooth rotor surface that the street pads really seem to like as well.

I take no compromises in brakes for street atocross and track use.

Bob
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:29 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
I don't know, my carbotechs have lasted 5 events, or about 23 hours total on track, I am sure they would take me through my next event too, but it would be cutting it close, thats a total of 27 hours. can't ask for much more.

technically, I didn't follow the bedding to the T, but whatever. I am planning to experiment with pads half way through the next year, so we shall see!
Ditto...

I got those things baked (smelt like a train) then waited half an hour before beating on them again. Rotors were 2nd hand and only treatment was a thorough Scotch-Brite session.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:11 PM   #33
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I still sell the cobalts by the way, no complaints about performance from anyone who bought them.
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:03 AM   #34
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I can run them on any used rotor and they work, I can beat the **** out of them, I can overheat them, the never taper, they last a very long time, they're $60 for the Wilwood shape, and you can ever store them in the same room as another pad compound.
Where are you getting your DTC-60s for $60? I paid $105 for DTC-30s in the stock shape, and I thought the 60s were more...
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:33 AM   #35
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Wilwood Dynalite pads are cheaper than factory pads in every compound.
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:25 PM   #36
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With your cheap brackets using cheap Corrado rotors, it's a bit of an expensive initial cost at $480, but then rotors are just as cheap as stock, and pads last twice as long and are cheaper. Win win in my book.

edit: that's assuming $250 for calipers, $80 for lines, and $150 for a used set of 11" brackets from someone upgrading to 11.75".
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:16 PM   #37
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Wilwood Dynalite pads are cheaper than factory pads in every compound.
Radial DynaPro Pads are the same price as Dynalite and have 50% more usable pad thickness to wear through before you need a new set.
Bob
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:33 PM   #38
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Radial DynaPro Pads are the same price as Dynalite and have 50% more usable pad thickness to wear through before you need a new set.
Bob
20% more expensive for a DTC60 ($70 vs $88). And the caliper is more expensive. By my math, you'd need to use 17 sets of pads through a DP4R before you break even on the additional investment.
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