Remote Brake bias control install
 

So having done a 1.8 bracket and rotor upgrade on my car... then running out of brakes. My next step was the 949 racing 11" rotor upgrade. Got it, very nice pieces all installed and with that... realized I NEEDED to control brake bias now.

So. Bought the Wilwood brake bias proportioning kit from Flying Miata. Typically I'd just buy from whoever is cheapest, but their price was almost inline with others and they had the 3 fittings so I could be lazy about it.

At the same time I did some research and found a kit from Wilwood that allows for remote brake bias adjustment. Awesome!

Get both items in, remote kit from a random ebayer (came in very fast). I start looking at things and scratching my head. Hurm... wtf does this remote kit talk about a bias bar? I don't remember seeing anything about that when I found the kit.

FAWK.... the remote kit is for a Bias BAR setup for their pedal kits. Basically your pedal is moving a bar from the middle and on either end of the bar is a mini master cylinder... the Remote kit allows you to adjust the bar and tilt it form side to side, thus adjusting F/R bias.

Great... I just bought something I can't use. Hurm... wait now... the thread here looks really close... really really really close. Well fug it... lets try.

Recipe for Remote bias control:
1x Wilwood bias proportioning valve (flying miata part #14-76240 )
1x Wilwood Remote Bias bar kit (WIL-340-4990)

Take the proportioning valve and carefully cut/hammer/hack the knob off. It is some sintered cheap metal. I held it down on some wood and hammered most of the knob off... then slit it with a dremel and used a chisel to finish splitting it off.
Next install it and the remote kit, locating the knob as you wish and running the cable through the firewall safely. Pictures below show my chosen locations.
Last real bit is attaching the cable to the knob with the little allen set key.
And then attaching the other end to the proportioning valve with some Thread Locker.

There... you know have remote brake bias control for when conditions change (rain/sleet/snow ;p) or trying out staggered tires and needing to redial brake bias. Or you change brake pad compounds and need to adjust.

Pictures:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...s/DSCF0225.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...s/DSCF0227.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...s/DSCF0230.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...s/DSCF0228.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...s/DSCF0229.jpg

sweet! wish you would have taken pictures of how that cable looks like so we could perhaps find it separately and make it into a kit, you know...

sweet! does this do anything strange to you class wise in racing?

It's $40 at summitracing....just buy it!

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...l-340-4990.jpg


It's a cool solution that doesn't require flaring new lines, which is cool in my book.

Can you even reach that from the driver's seat?

Yup, isn't even at full arm extension/reach. I sit very close in driving position. Almost full 90 degree bend in my arms.

awesome! since i have the bias proportioning kit sitting in my garage collecting dust right now, i'm gonna seriously consider duplicating this when i finally get around to installing it.

Interesting idea. I've got that same adjustment cable in my Seven to adjust my bias bar.

Think you fell victim of the necro thread Kiethy.

This wasn't two weeks old, it was a year and two weeks. :P

That being said I remember seeing this and liking it a lot, it's much easier than the work I did to get mine working. I have my knob mounted on the transmission tunnel (I gave Keith the idea for the targa), and running/mounting/flaring lines there was a bitch. Took a while to get to stop leaking, etc. That being said it was fairly cheap, but still around $40, same as this knob.

Do they make longer ones that could possible get to the center console area?

A customer pointed this thread out to me, asking if we sold that adjustment cable. It IS an interesting idea, even if nobody's posted to the thread for a year. The more I think about it, the more I like it :) All of my cars with adjustable brake bias can be adjusted from the driver's seat, it's very useful on track. And yes, the position of the adjuster in the Targa car was Curly's idea. If you have the transmission out, the plumbing is easy.

On the Seven, the cable goes from the base of the brake pedal to behind the shifter fairly easily. I don't know about fitting in a Miata. I might have to pick a cable up and see what possibilities present themselves in terms of length.

More like fell victim to awesome. Never saw this before, and think i'd like to do it now...

Keith, if you do start selling a cable for this, lemme know and you have a buyer. :)

BTW, the Wilwood cable is 5' long.

Hopefully I didn't come across as too rude, not my intention. I appreciate you bumping this actually, I'm going to move it to the race section.

I plumbed my Targa location located wilwood knob with the engine and transmission in the car. If you cut the stock rear line, flaring it isn't too bad if you disconnect enough of it to give yourself some slack. Then you can bend and position the lines 90* towards the middle of the car, 90* to face up the transmission tunnel, and then 90* into the adjuster. All of that bending can be done outside the car, after a little measuring underneath. Then just slide it under and bolt it up. I did this on jack stands, no lift. It adds two more failure points with the union, but once I figured out how to flare, it hasn't leaked.

I used 1/4" flares (I think) on the metric lines, which are roughly equivalent. I think I remember removing both ends once I cut it, and wire wheeling off the paint. The flare tool liked to slip on the paint. The lines were $6ish at NAPA. The double flare tool was the most expensive at $40, unions were $10ish.

Tech tips for flaring: like painting, prep is really important. Make sure the pipe is cut straight, deburred and chamfered. A good quality flaring tool makes a huge difference. Those cheap ones they loan out at auto parts stores will drive you nuts. And you would have used a 3/16" flare, that's the right size for a Miata line.

Alternately, you can buy lengths of pre-flared brake line at auto parts store. You could use two of those, though it might be a pain dealing with bending up the rear section.

Yup that's what I used, 3/16". I did buy those pre-cut lengths (36"?), cutting a section out of the stock rear line so I didn't have to cut the pre-cut ones to length. I think I cut out about 1-1.5'. With that section gone, the rear part was really easy to remove, the one going up from and then over to the master cylinder was a bit of a bitch, but came out.

My $40 flare tool was decent, although I have no past experience. Being my first time flaring lines, I wouldn't say it drove me nuts. I did buy a piece of 3/16" line to practice on. My advice would be to use a pipe cutter as well, I tried one or two with a hack saw and cut off wheel, and they failed horribly. I borrow a proper pipe cutter from work.

If I did it again I'd try to borrow a decent one (if I could find it) from a friend or auto store, and buy the pipe cutter, I've wanted one of those more times than the double flare tool. If anyone wants mine, I'd be willing to sell it.

Good to see this was helpful to some people. Was a great mistake in my book :)

Reason being?

If it wasn't such a huge obnoxious knob, I'd be interested in hiding it within arms reach.

*Edit* Then again, once I got mine setup way back when, I just kind of forgot about it. Most of us are not good enough to know what we need to do on the fly.

Do you mean me saying it was a 'great mistake'? Only in the sense that the cable wasn't ever meant to be used with the Prop valve. Thus a misread/misorder on my part... ended up still working out.

:giggle: Awesome!

How did I overlook this glory?

I did this on my car however I mounted the Tilton adjuster next to the ebrake and routed the cable through the fire wall on the passenger side so the cable only makes one 90 degree turn and I was able to use the stock proportioning valve mounting bracket. for first I tried routing the cable kinda like this guy did and there was way too much resistance on the knob so I'm not sure how he made it work.

No issue with any resistance, you probably just had it looped tighter than I did. Or the Tilton knob/cable setup just isn't as smooth as the Wilwood one.

dang yeah, thats what I get for saving on shipping and buying multiple items from one shop.

you are in Chicago I see, I just started a yahoo group "turbo miata chicago" and a social group on miata turbo so hopefully the chicago guys can do a meet this summer for beer or whatever and sync up on some track events.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/turbomiatachicago/

I've just finished a complete part out and sell off. Well... mostly finished.
So my meet time will be filled with doing other stuff these days.

Try this FB page for other midwesters, http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/138919872835153/

if you dont mind me asking, why. my routing might have been tighter, also when I made the bracket it slightly bent the spring seat plate so that may have decreased resistance.

Why what?

why.. are you parting the car? did it get wrecked? loose interest? move on to another project?

Ah, just taking a break and cleaning house.

why do you guys just run it inside?? i just finished redoing my brake line fore my prop valve and hydro hand brake. i bought lines from pegasus ( they are a goodridge dealer and can custom make any brake line) so i got them with the fittings i needed so i didnt need to many adaptors ( less leaks)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335751825
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335751825

while it may be a little more expensive, it looks a hell of alot better, not to mention you dont have you prop valve floping around in your engine bay

my valve is mounted to the stock bracket with the stock bolt it aint going anywhere. I did it this way because I did not want to take the time to figure out the fittings, order new ss lines or make my own hard lines and buy the flare tool. I'm not sure how much the lines cost,but for something I wont use very much the path of least resistance was best for me. it works and it is done so im happy.

If it were me, I would've mounted it on the other side out of the way

Awesome idea! I'm definitely copying this, as I was dreading the work involved in running the brake lines.

you mean like this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335802989

?

You can just mount the valve in the tunnel just on the opposite side of the parking brake. No need for cables, etc.
Everything is on under the car, only the control is inside - this way it looks OEM.
I used the lever type Tilton one so I can do quck adjustments per corner while driving when I need it.

Watch for leaks. I'm on my 3rd Wilwood slave.

why dont you post of the specs of the stainless lines (the length, fittings size, where you got them and cost) so other people can do this more easily if the choose to go this route.

this would be a nice simple product for FM, TSE, 949, to add to their offerings hint hint

Or you could mount it like Curly posted in posts 18/19 of this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/flyin-miata-miata-accessories-48/wilwood-complete-adjustable-brake-proportioning-kit-28557/

Much cleaner and hard lines are better than braided lines.

I agree with this guy ^^^^


I should note that 4 years later I've had zero leakage, rust, corrosion, or other issues. I think I almost immediately re-did one of the lines with a pipe cutter. You need those cuts perfectly straight for the double flare tool. If you're investing $40 in the double flare tool, spend the $10 to buy the pipe cutter.

Nice? Sure. Although I've never had the desire to alter bias while driving, it's always nice to have more adjustment available to the driver on the fly.

Simple? Hardly. Putting the valve inside the car requires you to cut into the factory brake line, add new metric fittings, properly double-flare both sides of the factory line, route the brake line into the car without kinking it, mount the prop valve, attach the two new lines (assuming you bought them pre-flared and in the perfect length), and ensure that none of the four additional flare connections you made leak.

The engine bay kits offer 95% of the benefit of an in-car install with maybe 20% of the labor outlay and 50% of the cost. I can put one of our prop valve kits into a car in ~30 minutes, and that includes pressure bleeding the brakes. The people who absolutely have to have the valve in the car are more than capable of buying the pipe cutter and double-flare tool and doing the install without a kit.

I think he meant the cable operated knob. I'm not sure why he can't buy it at summit or something though. One stop shopper perhaps.

No, read it again. He was talking about all the stainless lines/fittings to do a setup like that.

im not against any of this, to me i would rather mount the valve in the car than the wilwood knob, i have a hydro handbrake so im already running the lines so it just made sense, i had hard lines in there until just the other week when i swapped them because of a leak, i fixed a ton of leaks on them but there was one fitting that wouldnt stop. for anyone who wants to run lines inside, all of our lines use 10mm inverted flare, the banjo on the master is a 10mm banjo. the wilwood prop valve has 1/8npt fittings i use 1/8npt to -3an, or you can get 10mm convex inverted flare for the line and run a 1/8npt to 10mm concave inverted flare adapters.

Do you have any other pics of the routing under the back of the car? Do your lines run to the OEM junction block for the rear wheels and hardlines/ braided to the wheels or something completely different?

That or ctdftna's hyrdo e-brake. Someone should tell him TSE isn't in to drifting...

To whom are you speaking?

ctdrftna. I already know your ---- :party:

Necro bump.

I installed one and it's not quite working. I drilled a hole so the valve is pointed at the firewall with the line running straight into the fire wall and then to my dash under the mirror adjuster. So no loops or sharp turns.

I have to turn it 3 clicks before the prop valve starts moving. the 2nd click is small turn and the 3ed is a big turn. Then I have to turn it back the other way about 6 times then the valve turn to much as it's binding the cable then spinning it when it get to the point that it can't bind anymore.

Did anyone have the issue and fix it?

Hard to say, it does indeed sound like it's binding and then releasing. How tight does the prop valve feel when you turn it at the valve? Every once in a while I've run into one that has a bit more resistance than others, but I've only run into the cable binding when it was routed with either too much or too sharp of a bend in the cable. Straightening the cable route out always solved it... you say "no sharp bends" but does it have a turn in it to get over to the left side of the steering column? A simple twist test with the knob and cable out of the car shows there's a lot more resistance with even one gradual 90° bend in the cable, enough so that I chose to install the knob in the center tombstone so that the cable had only one very gradual ~30° bend - little to no resistance this way.

I'm with you. I did this a while back, tried several cable routes and could not get it to work to my satisfaction. it worked kinda but would not consistently twist, or hold adjustment. sometime it would hold but often the cable acted like a spring and the knob would just flip back. I suspect you could make it work if you twist the bias valve 90 degrees so the adjustment knob points into the cabin. I pulled it out and hope to run new hard lines soon. it is really designed for use with a balance bar and not something I want to fight with on track.

this could be a interesting solution, assuming it could be mounted properly. I think the crank method of this unit would reduce the issue of the coil wound cable soaking up the twist and not getting the adjustment to the bias valve. What we really need is a heavy duty cable that does not "unwind".
Allstar Performance ALL42078 : Allstar Performance Brake Bias Adjusters w/ Reference Pointer - 10" Short Adjuster - 2" Crank

I was looking at my balance bar knob and I think a shortest possible cable length might go a long way to reduce this issue but I would want to bench test it before mangling my stock brake lines. I wonder how much, if any, the bias valve firms up with pressure/fluid/ valve installed versus no pressure/fluid on a bench? it might also be helpful to install heavy springs in the knob but I doubt it. A heavy spring would probably just make the knob hold cable tension, it would do nothing to actually help transmit the knob adjustment into the bias valve. just a thought