Rotella T6 vs. Rotella 10w30 for N/A track use - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-31-2012, 07:49 PM   #21
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Hustler, any data on Schaeffer?
If they don't sell it at Wal-Mart, I don't need it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:51 PM   #22
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I put T6 in every car I care about.
Yep, +1 to this.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:05 PM   #23
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The additive package in T6 (such as aforementioned zinc) can be tough on cat converters. T6 is great stuff, but keep in mind that the engine protection it offers may come at the price of the cat, so it may not be the right choice for all applications.

I personally feel that the trade off is justified for most of my cars, but use less expensive oil (such as mobil 5000) in some cars.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:25 PM   #24
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The additive package in T6 (such as aforementioned zinc) can be tough on cat converters. T6 is great stuff, but keep in mind that the engine protection it offers may come at the price of the cat, so it may not be the right choice for all applications.

I personally feel that the trade off is justified for most of my cars, but use less expensive oil (such as mobil 5000) in some cars.
Are we sure this ins't an old-wive's tale?
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:15 PM   #25
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maybe if you are burning off alot of oil, but i cant imagine it causing that much damage if you essentially are not burning a measurable amount.

i have heard of people using small amounts of break in oil in every oil change to boost the ZDDP level. rislone or something i think is what the actual additive is.

I saw plenty of damage from poor oils so i try to keep up with it especially since my disco has nearly 200k on it (flat tappet (hla) too...)
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:24 PM   #26
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It is true that gasoline oil additive formulations have dropped zinc (and phosphorus) substantially. The internet scuttlebutt is that it was mandated by EPA to protect the cats -- and given that the substitute additives are more expensive, it passes the smell test.

However, catalytic converters (in one form or another) have been mandated on U.S. cars since 1975, and gasoline engine oil as recently as 5 years ago used to have a heck of a lot more zinc in it than it does now. It may be related to some recent advancements in 3-way cats . . . not sure. I don't think it is a concern for those of us with NAs or NBs.

Of course, if you cook your cat that's a great excuse to replace it with a high-flow metal substrate version.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:49 PM   #27
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It is true that gasoline oil additive formulations have dropped zinc (and phosphorus) substantially. The internet scuttlebutt is that it was mandated by EPA to protect the cats -- and given that the substitute additives are more expensive, it passes the smell test.

However, catalytic converters (in one form or another) have been mandated on U.S. cars since 1975, and gasoline engine oil as recently as 5 years ago used to have a heck of a lot more zinc in it than it does now. It may be related to some recent advancements in 3-way cats . . . not sure. I don't think it is a concern for those of us with NAs or NBs.

Of course, if you cook your cat that's a great excuse to replace it with a high-flow metal substrate version.
No cat = win
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:48 AM   #28
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I'm running a Goodwin Racing Midpipe with a high flow cat, so I don't think it will be an issue.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:03 AM   #29
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I believe the change in oil additives, the reduction of zinc, is a result of federal mandate that emissions systems be warranted to 80k by auto manufactures. the partnership between oil manufactures and auto manufactures forced the additive packages be changed to protect the cats at the expense of engine cams and other engine components.

I don't think diesels are subject to the same rules, which is why the diesel oils offer the best protection for performance engine enthusiast owners on a budget. I've dealt with this situation first hand. I used Mobil one as recommended in my Audi s4 street car. possibly as a result of oil reformation myself and many other audi guys have experienced cam and lifter failure. I can not say what caused the failure for sure but if you read around alot a racers have had similar problems with cam wear they associate with the oil reformulation.

then again, zinc is said to build up inside a motor and offer protection so in theroy, when the engine gets this zinc cover built up it should no longer really be a issue. experts say you should use the same oil that the seals go accustomed to after initial break in to prolong seal life.

one thing for sure, if you see higher than average oil temps you need a heavy weight oil im0
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:45 PM   #30
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I don't think diesels are subject to the same rules, which is why the diesel oils offer the best protection for performance engine enthusiast owners on a budget.
The over the road diesels were not troubled by these types of rules because they did not use catalytic converters... until 2007 depending upon engine configuration, at which time the diesel oils were similarly reformulated. Many off road diesel applications (machinery) saw the addition of the same diesel exhaust filters (DEF), which is a fancy name for a special catalytic converter. This started in 2012 with the implementation of the Tier 4a emissions standard and they will all have DEFs and urea injection by 2014 with the coming of the Tier 4 final standard.

What does that mean to us? Zinc and phosphorus have recently been supposedly mostly phased out of the diesel oils as well but *may* have been replaced with other EP lubricants. Interestingly, there appear to be diesel oils that are listed for pre-2007 diesels only on the market. But the shear strength of the Rotella T6 Synthetic is still better than all of the other off the shelf choices according to the chart I saw.


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I've dealt with this situation first hand. I used Mobil one as recommended in my Audi s4 street car. possibly as a result of oil reformation myself and many other audi guys have experienced cam and lifter failure. I can not say what caused the failure for sure but if you read around alot a racers have had similar problems with cam wear they associate with the oil reformulation.
The major aftermarket camshaft manufacturers for the musclecar market have well documented the relationship between oil reformulation to remove ZDDP and flat tappet cam failure. And we have flat tappet cams.

But more than the cams, I worry about all of the other sliding surface friction within my engine, from bearings to oil pump to turbo journals.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:53 PM   #31
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thanks for the correction, I was not aware of the diesels being subject to the same or similar EPA regulation.
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:49 PM   #32
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Yep, there's a 2007 model year cut-off. The good stuff is CI-4 or CI-4+. The reduced ZDDP stuff is CJ-4. I suspect as time marches on, it will get harder and harder to find high zinc/phosphorus formulations.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:47 PM   #33
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Everyone in Corpus runs T6 as well, daily's, race cars, motorcycles, etc. One thing to remember if you have a high mileage motor with an unknown history is that Rotella will clean the ---- out of any sludged motor. That being the case I would dump the first T6 change after 500 miles or one track day. You'll be surprised what it can get out of your motor in 500 miles.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:38 AM   #34
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Everyone in Corpus runs T6 as well, daily's, race cars, motorcycles, etc. One thing to remember if you have a high mileage motor with an unknown history is that Rotella will clean the ---- out of any sludged motor. That being the case I would dump the first T6 change after 500 miles or one track day. You'll be surprised what it can get out of your motor in 500 miles.
Yeah, I just picked up a few jugs yesterday (it was on sale at my local walmart) and I'll be changing it a couple days before the track day and then again a couple days after to see what it looks like. Even though my motor is pretty high milage, I think it may have a rebuilt head (or the previous owner took really good care of it with really regular oil changes), as its pretty clean under the VC. Much cleaner in fact than my previous ~65k motor.

I've had the Rotella 10w30 in there since I got the motor in which was about 4000 miles ago, and it still looks brand new, and with all new front main, rear main, cam seals etc its not leaking or burning a drop.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:56 PM   #35
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My 1994 never ticks on 10w30 white bottle Rotella. Oils maintain viscosity differently with temp increases, you can't just say "all 30 weight oil is too thin", it doesn't work like that.
Hustler: question: obviously not all 30 weight oil are the same. but can I say all 10w40 (any of name brand) is thicker than all 10w30 ?
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:00 PM   #36
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Hustler: question: obviously not all 30 weight oil are the same. but can I say all 10w40 (any of name brand) is thicker than all 10w30 ?
They will be the same at zero degrees and 10w40 will be thicker at operating temperature and 10w30 will be thinner.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:07 PM   #37
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Hustler: question: obviously not all 30 weight oil are the same. but can I say all 10w40 (any of name brand) is thicker than all 10w30 ?
I dont' know. I've made my assumptions based upon my experience wtih UOA data on my car. As you all know, I'm a certified moran and you should generally trust nothing I say. I usually try to code my posts with satire and assaults upon sexuality and gender to give-away the information from mis-information.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:09 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Yep, there's a 2007 model year cut-off. The good stuff is CI-4 or CI-4+. The reduced ZDDP stuff is CJ-4. I suspect as time marches on, it will get harder and harder to find high zinc/phosphorus formulations.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf
Thanks for posting this.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:24 AM   #39
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Hustler: question: obviously not all 30 weight oil are the same. but can I say all 10w40 (any of name brand) is thicker than all 10w30 ?
This is a question for cheetahdriver over on m.net.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:15 AM   #40
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Regarding new engines, I've heard of pro-guys adding a squirt of assembly lube to the oil b/c of the high zinc content... so if it's zinc your after, there's always a way.
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