I hope I am not out of area for asking this question in this thread, as I saw it was a stickied tire thread...


Looking for some of the higher power drag strip guys to chime in. I am in the market finally for some good gripping rears for the quarter mile. I am looking to see what drag radial options I have that are sorta Miata friendly in size. I have 2 sets of wheels I could choose to run them with, either 15x8 et20 TRM C1s, or some 13inch Honda CXs (13x6 I believe?)

The Honda wheels currently have some Goodyear road race slick it looks like on it, 22x7.5x13 I believe.
Any guys running DOT slicks on their Miatas? Any tire info as far as price and popular/proven sizes let me know.

I autox'd on some 275/35 hoosiers with the 15x9 6uls on Sunday in an SSM miata and Oh.... My...... God it was glorious.

The grip was beyond my comprehension. I had no idea what to do with it. It was my first time on hoosiers, 4th time on r-comps, so the learning curve is steep. The car puts down around 220 rwhp, has the atc200 wing, 96 r-package so stock 4.10 torsen, the backend did not come around under throttle, only if you upset the car with bad steering inputs.

I'm co-driving the same car next season, so hopefully I'll get use to them quickly. But it'll also have 100 more hp and a lot more shock :drool:


I recommend every track racing miata nut to drive on some 275 hoosiers at least once, its quite amazing.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. LOL we can't have everyone on 275 Hoosiers.

Here is a side by side shot.

On the Right 205mm wide Nitto NT01's on the left 275mm wide Hoosier A6's. Is the difference noticeable?


http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...2_369947_n.jpg

I think you have to much wing angle.

I had just used the car for an Auto X with MUCH lower speeds than a open track. I was attempting to make the wing more effective at speeds of 40-60mph.

Hoosier makes a 245 radial slick that is the right diameter 22.9". R80 and R100compound mounts a 7' to 10" rim per there listing

http://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm

Bob

Yes they are like a highly addictive drug. I wore through one set this year then picked up a co-driver to help me buy another set. Seems like they work out to cost somewhere between $15 and $20 a run. They would last longer I think mounted on 10” or 11” wheels. Luckily I won contingencies for another set for next year.

I also have thought about getting a set in R6 compound for the track. Even though they are gawd awful wide they are still over 2 lbs a piece lighter than 225 Nittos.

Bob

I love my RE-11 they have worked great for me even kept wheel spin on my 350whp miata down. Also at $97.00 each cant beat it from sears.

Rather than start a new thread I will ask a question here I think is still relavent.

I am looking at getting a set of 225/45R15 for track work but still need to be road legal. I am in Australia so the selection is extremely limited. I have basically two options available, the Kumho V70A and the Nitto NT01.

Has anyone here tried the Kumho V70A http://www.kumhotireusa.com/Tire.asp...a257ab7&cat=18 and can anyone offer any comparison between them and the NT01? I am basically after best lap time but would like to see 5+ track days from them, both of which should last that long without too much drop off in times I think.

Cheers,

Tim

I’m a little late in answering this but years ago when that tire first came out I had a set. I used them at Thunderhill once and literally blistered them with big chunks of rubber down to the cords flying off destroying them in a single day use don’t know if they changed it since then. Prior to that I used V700 Victoracers and never had that problem I think they were basically the same compound but the tread pattern was different and the casing was definitely different. The Ecsta V700 V70A was allot squirmier and not precise feeling at all but had good grip until they became quickly overheated. The Kumho V710, the one with jut two grooves around it would be really fast on the track if you weren’t doing a very long session they might hold up Ok but they are really more of an autocross tire and they only come in a 225/50/15. They will be faster than a Nitto NT-01 early in there life but have less than ¼ of the life span of a NT-0 even if you took good care not to abuse them too bad.

Bob

I've driven two different miata's, both with 15x9 6UL's and RS3's and the R1R's, the R1R's do noticeably better in rain/wet which is nice for a street car in the Northwest.

I remember reading the Toyo R1R's run faster on autocross and for HPDE's compared to the RS3's but tend to overheat easier and are slightly less communicative on the limit. I haven't had the R1R and RS3 on the same car for a track day, so it's hard for me to talk about their performance difference there (different suspension, power, etc). But we're comparing $125 tire against a $100 tire. Both are tread rated 140.

I guess my point is, if you can't find RS3's, pick up the R1R's. The tread looks cool too! :)

Just my two cents.

Just an FYI but most of the guys posting impressions are running open track. Autox and open track demand different things from a tire.

Also a point I didn't see discussed is hp vs tire width. Emilio recomended in a few threads to stay on a 205 until your in the 140hp range or the aero loss is not worth the width.

Also remember that a 205 is fastest on an 8" rim and a 225 is fastest on a 9".

I think I'm going to go for the 245/40/15's made for the Caterham CSR. I can get them for £140 each which is roughly the same price for 225/45/15 R888's. I've just got to order some 9" wide rims first ...

I'm curious, who figured this out and how was it tested?

Everyone, USA

lol, read your sig. you're at the common sense part, hopefully soon you'll be @ the wisdom part. and don't be so hard on yourself. not everyone has had a chance to partake in MT.net & emillio's wisdom.

:confused: I'm not being hard on myself?

I've seen 225/45/15 RS3s mounted in 15x9s and they looked very stretched, common sense says that setup is not good. EDIT: in fact, the largest rim width the 225 RS3 is approved for is 8.5in.

I am just curious to know if some organization or person had taken the same Miata, with the same tires, and different sized wheels around the same track and compared times. Or if the conclusion was drawn from anecdotal experiences.

yes, scientific method employed by some of the top miata racers in the country. conclusive beyond a reasonable doubt. but don't believe what we say is true. please mount 225's on 8" wheels so we can embarass you on our 9's. hoosiers and nt-01's have the slightest stretch, nobody's talking about all season's on 9's, don't confuse us with cr.net

Whoa, don't take it personally, I was just explaining why the "225s on 9in" statement confused me given my experience. Now that you say that some people who really know what they're doing figured it out, I am convinced.

I never said I didn't believe you, I never talked about all-seasons, I never said I knew better. I'm just asking a few questions, that's all.

I can one up that post.

275/35/15 DOT Hooser versus 23.5X11R16 Radial Slick Hoosier. Now Im working out building a first gen car around using these.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...4&d=1317098216
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...5&d=1317098216

Looking forward to seeing the result

In the series I run we are only allowed to use road legal tires. Here is what I run:

Toyo R888s - warmed up after 2 croners, but overheats in lap 5 and melts in lap 9, no matter what settings I (we) have tried. Excellent in rain. Commonly used as rain tires in my series and in the dry by the low budgeted drivers.

Kumho V70A. Frikkin assume. You can beat on them, abuse them, slip and slide and they keep asking for more. Lots of grip. Wears out fast, so the price per lap is pretty high. Sucks(!) in rain.

Yokohama A048. Has 85% of the Kumhos grip, but wears a lot better. I have a set to practise on, since they are a lot cheaper per lap then the Kumhos. Works reasonablt well in rain.

Can you guys get BFGoodrich R1s over there?

They should have most of the grip of the V70 but much better life. What about other euro only tires like the AVON or some Michelin?

I'm going to be running falken ziex 912 tomorrow at big willow . Think I will have any problems?

Nt 01 225/45/15 Nittos, seem to last longer then the RA1's I was using earlier on. John

First post here-
I ran MPSCups on my 996TT and hated them and wore out fast. Currently have V12 Hankooks and love them plus half the price. Will me doing a few Laguna dates in March. On here because I'm contemplating getting a Miata SC built by TC Design.

Good to know! Thanks

I really enjoy my nt-01's and they are really wearing well. They lack the ultimate grip of my out of date victoracers, but they sure are predictable. And they don't get stupid on rain, which is nice. I really want to get some times this year and compare them to my star spec dailys. My 0.02.

someone was talking about the A6, hoosers autocross tires. if you can pay the coin they are sick sick tires. the grip is limitless but the burn up mighty fast when driven at the limit on a road race track.

Let's not spread the purple crack kool-aid too hard. Limitless grip? The A6 will give more outright grip than an R6 or R1 but it certainly isn't limitless.

Both Goodyear and BFG have recenetly released "autocross" compounds of their popular D.O.T R-compound tires. Both of those tires should be very similar to the A6 as far as ultimate grip and tire life. I only have experience with the BFG R1 "S", so I can't comment on the A6 or the Goodyear.

Yay! 1000th post...

GEH

well obviously there is a limit, so I was exaggerating. I've driven and rode in plenty of very fast road race cars and Ive been extremely impressed with the grip of the A6. that tire will let you drive around other cars in a DE full of seasoned drivers in fast cars like they are parked. the down side is that when used in road race conditions most people change em out in about 1 hour. the tire will continue to grip for some time I'm sure but obviously my point that it is not a tire for casual track events. If I ever got serious about TT I would get that tire. but that wont happen.

I'm really more into the endurance because running for a hour straight or however long it takes the car to run out of fuel and keeping times within a couple seconds makes me happy, and feel like I've got a car that is pretty set up, which is what I hope to do with my miata.

For sure, if you are in a car on A6s driving in a DE event with a bunch of cars on street tires, it will feel like you have the ZOMG PURPLE CRACK.

Have you ever driven a car with the BFG R1S or Goodyears Autox tire, or Kuhmos autox tire, or Hankooks autox tire? Or non-DOT slicks from Goodyear or Hoosier? Yes the A6 is a very grippy tire, but it is not the only one. There are other similar tires out there.

For sure, most of the competitive guys in NASA TT who are winning tire contingencies are running A6. For sure they are running the A6 because hoosier is the only one paying contingency for NASA TT.

At the runoffs, in classes where a DOT r-compound is required, lots of people run the "autox" compound because they can last a 45 minute race and they are faster. For sure, these same guys are using a new set of A6s (or other autox compound) for every session. I used approx. $4000 worth of autox compound tires in 5 sessions at the Runoffs. For sure, this is not the tire for the average DE guy who is looking for longevity.

I think it's well proven on this forum that a tire like the NT01 is the best balance of cost vs. grip vs. longevity for the DE driver. Emilio has also shown the NT01 may be the best tire for the endurance racer also (at least in a miata). For sure we've had very good results with the standard BFG R1 in our endurance racing, going over 4 hours on the front tires in a FWD car and 8+ hours on the rear tires.

P.S. Practicing my pro race car driver method to start a sentance...

no one runs a street tire or autocross tire in the DEs I do so my experience with auto cross tires on a road race track is limited to the A6 so I cant compare to other models. I ordered a set of NT-01 for the miata because, like you said, they seem to a good tire at a cheap price. I'm not doing the hooser thing at least until I get the car dialed and know it is reliable on the track

On some 225 RS3s right now

Have you driven both the R1-S and the R1 or just the R1-S? Contemplating between the two and wondering about the characteristics of them.

Yes, I have a decent amount of experience with the R1, and last year at the Runoffs ran a couple of sets of the R1-S. The difference between the two compounds is similar to the R6-A6 relationship. The R1-S gets up to temp. more quickly and has more ultimate grip, however the tire wears more quickly. Unfortunately, my only experience with the R1-S is on an SSB Civic Si which is very, very hard on it's front tires. I don't know how my experience will translate to your car but assume that the R1-S will have similar life as an A6.

Ultimately, I think the R1-S has more outright grip than an A6 but I don't have as much experience with Hoosiers. I will say that one of my competitors in an SSB Mustang tried Goodyears, Hoosier A6s and the BFG R1-S during the runoffs and he started the race on the BFGs...

Is this a track car, TT car, or a race car?

Car is DD/track NC in Texas heat...how well did the s hold up to the heat throughout a session compared to the R1, do they get greasy, do they talk much at the limit of grip, and when they do let go is it progressive and easy to manage?

Unfortunately, it's hard for me to answer this question since my only experience with them is at Road America, in Wisconsin, in September. It would be foolish for me to try to tell you how they are going to be in Texas in July...

I don't remember the R1-S ever getting "greasy" during any of my sessions, but like I said it was September in Wisconsin. Also, my SSB Civic race car is a weird animal, unlike most other proper track/race cars. It has a completely stock suspension, we have to do weird things with tire pressures and alignment to get fast lap times. The car is really hard on front tires, especially the front left at Road America.

For a track car where maybe ultimate lap time is not the #1 priority I don't know if the R1-S is the tire for you. You'd be sacrificing a lot of tire life compared to the R1 for what reason? Does it matter to you to get the last 1 second of lap time? Are you doing any autocrossing?

I think if I had an NC track car I would try to get MX-5 cup take offs. I'm pretty sure they are a standard BFG R1, sized 225/45/17. There's got to be a few MX-5 cup teams out there selling their take-offs for cheap...

I've been cautious about getting r1 takeoffs cuz I don know how well they take heat cycles.

Ultimate time for a tire is not the greatest priority (to a certain extent) just wanting a tire that is faster than nt-01s and not the price of Hoosiers that's why the bfg is an option I'm considering. Just wondering in about more or less than 90 degree track/surface temps how the s or the r1 would compare in heat, durability, and time.

We run a couple S2000s on the R1 and R1-S, unfortunately I haven't driven them so everything I know about the BFGs on the S2000 is heresay. Either way, on our S2000s (which are probably a much better comparison to your car) the R1-S would "wear out" before it would heat cycle out. That is, we would physically use up the rubber in about 6 heat cycles? This is at the runoffs and at other national level, very competitive SCCA racing though, so we don't run tires if they drop off even a little bit. By "use up the rubber" I mean we would start to see some minor wear on the tires and then stop using them. I think a HPDE / track day guy would get 2-3x the life out of the tire because said person would be more tolerant of the tire dropping off a tiny bit. We're fighting for every 0.1s so we are running stickers when it counts.

We use the regular R1 for longer races and endurance races, and we've had very good luck with the life of the tires. The regular R1 will heat cycle out before it rubbers out, at least on the S2000.

If I were you I wouldn't be too worried about using regular R1 take offs, because they take heat cycles well and the wear very well also.

I recently participated in a auto-x the Memorial Weekend. My car had no suspension mods but I did have a set of brand-new Dunlop Direzza Star Specs. I am very impressed with the grip of the tires. I could not get the car to power oversteer like I could with the previous tires. It's like driving a totally new car.

what size wheels/tires do yall run for the track?

For auto-x, most folks in the threads I've seen like to use Bridgestone RE-11s or Dunlop Star Specs on 15" wheels. For STS they run 15x7.5 or 15x7 with 205/50s or 195/50s. The STR guys seem to like the 15x9s with 225/45 Hankook RS3s.

ahh, thanks for the help. I was wndering what size people usually ran, i was thinking something a bit fatter but i guess im just used to people running 10's or 11's on theirs rx8's

On Miata's, there's no reason to run anything larger than 9" unless you're pushing serious power from either a big turbo or V8 swap. In that case, you'd still need to do some significant clearance mods to the fenders. Not to mention close to zero options in tires.

nope, no reason at all. Unless you want to go faster that is.

Wider tires ≠ faster unless you take the whole car into consideration. Putting 9" 225s on a stock Miata will not make it faster. It will make it much slower due to the significant addition of unsprung weight.

unless you mean faster as in lower lap times. Then it really is faster. :D Somebody has been doing too much reading on forums and not enough driving the car competitively.

Not sure why you're knocking the forums. There are quite a few people here and in other forums with plenty of competitive experience and they'll tell you the same thing. There's no way putting ridiculously wider and heavier wheels and tires will make an underpowered car like a Miata faster at races like autocross. If that were the case then Miata racers would be driving around on 18x11" rims...

Case in point:
http://www.nerocam.com/SCC_TAP.asp
They shaved 0.5s 0-60 and 0.3s on the 1/4 just by swapping the bigger and wider 19" wheels to the stock 15". Like I said... Wider tires ≠ faster. Not in all cases. That's all I'm saying.

Forums= great, but only if you know enough to tell the difference between good input and bad input.

I have 13 years of autocross experience, and a degree in mechanical engineering. I certainly don't know everything. If I did, I wouldn't have much reason to be here. I said nothing about bigger wheel diameters. It seems unlikely there will ever be a tire of appropriate rolling diameter and compound to fit an 18x11, but if there were, you can bet people would try it. People tried 255-40-13 A6's and they were better than 225-45-13's. Then they tried the 275-35-15, and it was even better. On Miata's with near stock power levels. At autocross.

As far as your cited evidence, that 1/3rd second they gained at a drag strip is both well within human error on launch, and easily attributable to just the gearing improvement they made. Even if the gain was 100% attributable to weight loss, stickier tires don't have to add any weight, and usually beat the heck out of something lighter with less stick. Give me a 275-35-15 hoosier A6 on a roll formed boat anchor heavy diamond racing wheel in 15x10 over my 8.8 lb panasport 13x8.5 wheels with 225-45-13 A6's any day at a venue that involves corners. I've very happy with the fact that the panasports are so light because it makes changing tires a little easier on my back. That advantage dwarfs any advantage measured by timing.

Don't confuse marketing claims about how unsprung weight is important to ride quality (a truth, but often overblown) with what is faster when timing is involved.

I think I'm well into troll feeding territory, but I scrolled down that link gtlee77 posted and found this gem of scientifically rigorous testing and analysis/conclusions:

A friend if mine buys his tires in sets of 6 for DE's and rotates them out-- says he gets more life/value out of a set of 6 tires than 4 or 8. Obviously this isnt something you would do for an actual race, but does anyone think there is merit to this for just DE's?

Is the friend's car FWD?

AWD. rotates them once a day or so.

I run RS3's. They great when its sunny and over 75*F or over 65*F and you have a co-driver. Terrible racing in the rain, impossible to get hot if its cold out. But near r-comp levels of grip when up to temp, just can get away with the silly amount of slip angle you can with r-comps. You can't over drive them. The more you treat them like the ugly red headed stepchild the faster they are. I try to over drive them to heat them up and even without getting them hot it makes them faster. Of course this is auto-x and not on the track. The 2.5* of camber I have on all 4 corners is just about perfect based on the ol' calibrated hand pyrometer, though with a softer suspension I would recommend running more. 34-35 psi is where they like to be.

You must be on 15x7.5 or 15x8 wheels. On 15x9 wheels, mine like lower pressure.

No, I'm on 15x9 6ULs. And actually I was thinking of going with higher pressures. Based on the hand pyrometer the middle is cooler than both edges when I come off the course.

Expensive as ----, but I might try these out: Toyo Proxes R1R

R1R in 225/45R15? Uh ohhhhhhhhhh~~