Tires-What are you using, what have you used?
 

I am in need of a set of tires. I keep reading alot of good stuff on the rs-3's and have personally used nittos nt01s, but that is pretty much where my limited experience stands with tires and track driving. I ask specifically about the hancooks because I may potentially be able to get them for quite a bit less than the nittos.

I liked the nittos alot, very predictable, very controllable and they lasted me quite a long time. Grip didn't really seem noticeably worse with age or wear. So my question to all you track junkies out there.

What tires have you used, liked/disliked about them?
What are you currently using, and why?

NT-01 because they make lots of grip and seem to last longer than running street rubbers.

Going back to NT-01s. I did ~5 days on Hankook C71s. They are ~2 seconds faster than NT-01s at peak, but after the 15th session or so they drop off very dramatically. Too expensive to have that happen ($800 for C71s vs. $540 for NT-01s).

For Time Trials/Autocross Toyo R888 offers the best immediate grip without needing to be warmed up like RA1s

For 30+ minutes on a roadcourse, RA1s offer the most consistency and wear like iron

For fastest lap times, Mighty Hoosier tires

NT01 offer lots of grip too but don't last as long as RA1 and not as fast as hoosiers

V710's are cheap, lightweight, and sticky. IDK if they make them in the size you are running.

My car had RS2s on it when I got it. They were bad, I liked Ecsta XS better, although they aren't available in the 225/45-15. I know the RS3 is a different animal, however.

I still really like my NT01s, over a year after getting them. I'm well into the wear bars at this point, and they still have really nice consistent grip, communicate pretty well for an r-comp, and don't fall off very much with heat. For the price, NT01 is a winner, but if you can get RS3s for SUBSTANTIALLY less, then I personally would shop price. You'll get much better life out of either than a V710, obviously Hoosiers will be in a different league in terms of grip AND price.

Nt01 > rs3

I have both.

The RS3 is a great tire if you are going to run one set for both the track and road. I have used them at the track and were pretty damn good.

I run 225 Nt-01 currently and have run 225 RA-1s in the past. The NT-01s wear a little faster but have a little more grip.

Every tire I've run has had its own mix of strengths and weaknesses. It might be best to rank each tire by a few different categories, and compare it to your personal needs.

I used to run and loved everything about Toyo R-1 tires. Several seasons back, I burned through a few sets much faster than before. Fellow buddies experienced the same thing. We stopped running them.

The fastest laps I've turned have been on Hankook Z-211 C50 compound (the medium compound). I've seen the rubber melt off of Hankook C70 tires at a track day. The Hankooks are great when new, but heat cycle out and drop off.

The BFG R-1s weren't as fast, but were more consistent.

I've had great success with Hoosier R6 tires. Hoosier makes a SM6 tire, where "SM" stands for "Spec Miata". Only tire size available is 205/50-15, and the tires can only be purchased from vendors who offer track-side support (ie: not Tire Rack). Construction is exactly the same as Hoosier R6, but the price is discounted by $50.

For time trialing, Hoosier A6 can be a better choice, but that can depends on how the time trial is run.

I run SM6 and A6 Hoosiers. Great mix of performance, longevity, and cost. 205/50-15. 225's are slower, sometimes by quite a bit, with my 135 rwhp engine.

Another thing to consider is the driver's experience level. Some tires flat-spot a lot easier than others, and that can get expensive.

I am running Pilot Sport Cups on the P-car and they are very predictable and have a ton of grip - but $$$$. Will replace with Nt01s just for a price break and good wearing tire.

I have run A6's on the Miata as well, but when they drop off - they just go, and not a bit of a heads up before hand either. Mowing the grass was fun that day! :giggle:
I forget what TDR is running on their NC, but they are very pleased with them and they weren't that $$$$.

How much are you paying for a set of SM6s?

I have/am giving some serious thought to running the autocross compound of the Hankook (for autocrossing). I have found that in regional autocross competition we can have pretty good success with a combo of really good driving, really good car setup, and any old set of rcomps that are laying around. I've decided that the A6s only come out to play when it really matters.

Haven't bought tires since the beginning of the season. I believe SM6 price was $148 last year, $158 this year. 205/50-15 R6/A6 prices were $50 more.

first thing you want to ask is what size you want to run. if it is 225/45-15, you are limited to just few tires, A6/R6/NT01/RS3.

I personally like NT01 by far. RS3 would be my street tire choice.

I have always ran a 205/50/15 tire for street, autocross and track.

I liked Falken Azenias for street use, they are grippy but last a good while, track and autocross they grease up real quick and lose stability.

RA1s from Toyo, kick ass on the street and autocross, take about a lap to warm up real good but stability wise they are great. Ok for the street, I feel comfortable driving to a local event or even further on them but they will wear fast.

NT-O1s from Nitto, one of the best, if not the best, DOT tires you can buy, I was a second faster at the autocross and about 3 seconds faster at our local PCA HPDE compared to RA1s. This may have been situational but I feel it was the tires. They are even ok for a street tire if its not your daily (just weekend cruising in the sun).

I ran Kumo V710s and still have a set about 2 or 3/32 left (that I dont run), they dont even compare to RA1s or NT01s. This again might be situational as I got them used, but they were slower in every way.

All I have to say about "Best" DOT tires is that there is a reason the SCCA has banned Pilot Sport Cups from Autocross at the National Level. I don't see NT01s being banned anytime soon. They are a good tire though.

Yes I have heard good things about these tires, but have also never seen them available in anything smaller than a 16" wheel. I guess I meant "best" in the sizes available to us 15" or smaller wheel guys. I have not researched the available sizes in that tire to the greatest extent tho so forgive me if I am wrong.

best don't necessarily mean the fastest lap time.
long lasting
consistency - don't go greasy after 1 lap.
consistency - lap time of brand new NT01 is within 1 sec of a just cording NT01.
price

Good point - I had no idea they were not offered in 15".
Ran two days of HPDE on 3.1 course with sixteen turns @ 4 sessions a day and never had problems with the PSCs.
Again, I will be replacing them with the Nt01 for the pricing.

I absolutely hated the BFG GForce R1s for track use

too much stick and then they just 'give up' without warning and never predictable (at least not on my spec miata)

turn in totally different than RA1s (what I'm used to)

..but that stick, stick, stick and then NO STICK when too hot got me!!!! I will never ever buy G-force R1s again!!!!

If you end up going that route, let us know your impressions. I decided to just buy NT01s for now, but I will still be considering the C71s for the next set.

Difference for me is that you have to spend money shaving the RA-1s, whereas the NT-01s are super fast even at full tread.

True. FWIW full tread RA-1s make great track rain tires.

meh, I have yet to pay for shaving RA1s.... My old Rain tires end up great track race tires once worn out

My primary are the NT01s and I love 'em. Backup rains are some full tread RA1s, I also have a set of continental take-offs that I have yet to try.

The only down-fall (if you want to call it that) of the NT01s is they're noisy. I had installed the OSGiken LSD and put on the NT01s at the same time - I thought I screwed something up in the OSG install they were so noisy.

I've done one session in the rain, just to say I've done it. 5th gear wheelspin at 80mph gets old really fast.

My shifter kart, OTOH, is a retarded blast in the rain.

I'm running 225/45/15 Kook Z214's (C71), ran the NT01 last year. Similar in performance to the NT01 but a few bucks more (~$20 each IIRC). Kooks might have a slightly stiffer sidewall and might give a tad less feedback - but that could be my imagination. My lap times are stagnant either way - Probably go back to the Nitto's next year just for the cost.

Toyo R888 and Toyo RA1 is also available in 225 45 15 BTW

Toyo R1R
 

Spent a half day at the track with my new Toyo R1Rs, in 225/45/15. I have to say they impressed me. My turbo let go in the third session so I cant tell you how well they last, but I was really impressed with how much grip I got with a DOT. It was a cool day and they seemed to lose a little after they got hot, but not much.

R888 are crap, RA1 for life, NT01 slightly less life but slightly quicker times, RS3 for street/track duty. Hoosiers in 275 flavor or A6's for balla's.

Either you're getting ripped off for NT-01s or you've found a SMOKING deal on C71s. My local tire store will pricematch online prices and I pay $560 a set for NT-01s ($140/tire) and $800 a set for C71s ($200/tire), including mounting and balancing.

Sorry to confuse, it's neither. - the Hankooks were more expensive than the Nittos by more like $40 a tire ($140 vs 180 or so). My point was that I didn't see any measurable improvement over the NT-01.

EDIT - Another correction - The Kooks are C51 (medium), not C71 (soft).

I have never heard someone complain about too much grip...

I think your experience with the BFG R1 is pretty normal for a full race tire. The NT01s and RA1s are probably more forgiving at the limit than the R1 or a Hoosier.

Personally I have a lot of experience with R1s and I can't complain about their behavior at the limit, seems normal to me. I think they are quite predictable at the limit and easy to control, however, I've never driven a Spec Miata nor have I ever run the R1s on a Miata, ymmv.

I've had RS2s and NT01s on my turbo miata and have run BFG R1s on various other FWD race cars (Integra, TL-S, V6 Accord, RSX-S, etc.) and I think the R1 is a great tire. I'm surprised more of the fast guys here don't try them on their turbo miatas, they are quite a bit faster than NT01s and if heat cycled properly they have very good life. Unfortunately BFG hasn't made a 225/45 size yet, that might be why people here haven't tried them. Personally I think my turbo miata I would have been faster on the 205/50 R1s than the 225/45 NT01s but never was able to do a comparison.

I also have a little experience on Hankook C50s, but only for a couple of sessions and they were pretty well worn out when I ran them. They were horrible when I drove on them so I assume they were well past their useful life.

FYI our ITA Integra race car was faster on 205 BFG R1s than on 225 Hankook C70s or C50s. (both on a 7" wheel)

Fair enough. I saw a pretty big benefit - at Laguna, 1:37.9 on NT-01s, and that dropped to a 1:36.2 on C71s. My best at Buttonwillow was a 1:58.2 on NT-01s, and what felt like a fairly junk lap on C71s was a 1:55.8. The Kooks to me are not as forgiving to small slides or mistakes as an NT-01, but at the same time the NT-01 does not like to be overdriven - they overheat with excessive slip angle and you have to take a cooldown lap before they will come back at full force.

That is quite a difference, wish I saw it too. I agree with your assessment of both brands. My local track is NHMS and my best TT lap on the NT-01's was 1:21 flat (1:22's consistent). Best on the Kook's is 1:22.xx this year, way out of trophy contention in a competitive class. I expected better from the Kooks but power and suspension changes keep me from drawing any hard conclusions beyond "try harder" and "get more data".

WE had used BFG R1s on our FWD Infiniti G20 and they were fantastic on that car.

Tires do behave differently on different cars of course (especially fwd vs. rwd)

The simple fact is the turn in points were different with the R1 BFGs on the spec miata and they had tons of stick until they didn't (did not like how they were 'unpredictable' when they gave out -- much like the R888s IMHO that have this habit of just giving up with no warning or reason when too much heat in them.

I love hoosiers (never met anyone who doesn't) and have never experienced the 'give up' that BFG R1s or R888s have with them UNLESS at cordws (in which case it is understandable they are done).


I've been driving at tracks for over 15 years, tend to put in between 35 to 45 track days a season and experienced lots of cars with lots of different tires so I do have some experience behind my comments/observations.

The car type, driver, track surface, ambient and track temps of course all factor in as well of course!

Bottom line is I will never use BFG R1s on my spec miata is all but I also won't go out of my way to buy them for our g20 (not when there are plenty of other options out there).

Regarding Hankook C30 or C50 compound. Only used them on the g20... and in both cases, once over-heat cycled, they have little grip left long before reaching cords (much like pilot sport cup tires).

While very difficult to over-heatcycle an RA1, it can and has been done and I have experienced it a few times (didn't believe it at first but changing to other RA1s solved the lack of grip problem thanks to 2 of them being over-heatcycled before reaching cords!)

I don't have any experience on Hoosiers so I can't compare them to the R1. All I can say is we've won the Runoffs on the R1 with both FWD and RWD vehicles so we are going to continue to run them. I recommend them because I've never had anything but good experiences with them. I'm not versed in SM so I can't comment on how one would or should behave on R1s.

Was that only for the street tire classes requiring 140 or higher treadwear? There was a PSC (or was it PZeroC?) where only one size came in 140 and all others were 80-100…the 140 was molded to a deeper depth or something, the rubber was the same…but when shaved (legal in those classes)…voila an 80 in the >=140 class. Maybe that was it. So the SCCA banned all sizes of that tire for those racing classes.

For those wanting max perf street tires, the ADO8 Yoko is very nice. What I like about them is the really excellent steering feel and turn-in. Subjectively they are nice, and they perform well for that sort of tire, and can take heat too.

Might have been the PZero's... that was many moons ago since 2007. ;)

Ive used RS-2, R888 and now the RS-3

The RS-2 had good grip and didn't overheat fast. The R888 had more grip than the RS-2, but overheated faster. The RS-3 grips better than the RS-2 and almost as much as the R888 and they don't heat up as fast as the R888. The RS-3 also lasts longer than the R888

The Hankook C-71 is fast and great grip but has too soft a sidewall for my dual purpose car. They need a lot of camber to keep from rolling over. Also not a very communicative tire. When they let loose it's sudden. I like a tire that talks (squeals) approaching limits.

The Nitto and RA1 are easy tires to drive. They don't heat cycle out easily, give you good feedback and are affordable.

I really liked a set of old Avon Tech R's I had. Very stiff sidewall so I didn't have to run a ton of camber on my daily driver I also track. Lots of audible communication and they held up really well right down to the cords. Can't say what the current Avons are like, other than expensive.

FYI, Tamparally has 205/50/15 Hankook DOT z214's and F200 non DOT slicks in soft compounds, closeout for $79 and $95. Would be good autoX tires, doubt the soft compound would hold up well for heavy track duty.

These were my first race tires. I loved them, they lasted a long time and they never overheated and the stiff sidewall gave the car sharp turn-in. I didn't comment on them because I can't find then anymore.

Currently using 225/45/15 NT-01 on 6UL 15x8. Great tires, faster than I am, and a great value between the relatively cheap price and the long wear. And in a pinch you can drive them on the street.

Closest to my impressions/thoughts. I've run all of them on street and track except for the Hoosiers, which I have only run in autocross. Takes time to warm the RA-1s until they stick like NT-01s, which is probably why they last longer for street use.

The RS-3s stick almost as good as the NT-01s, and better than the RA-1s cold, but will look like street tires much longer, so I will go more time before I am pulled over for "Bald Tires"

If I could afford to run Hoosiers all the time, I probably would. But my pockets aren't that deep and I am really not THAT competitive.

All except the Hoosiers were run in 225/45/15 on 15 x 9 6ULs The Hoosiers 275 on 15 x 10 steel.

Eeeewww! I was running V710s on my RX7 and loved them. When it came time to buy a new set, Tirerack was running a big closeout special on the Avons and I got a set. You are right, they had a massive sidewall. You could almost run them without air in them. But they weighed over four pounds more per tire than my V710s did and KILLED my times. The car was no longer even close to competitive. I hated going out in it. Those tires were actually part of the reason that I went ahead and bought my Miata. The RX7 just wasn't as fun anymore.

Interesting...

Another hot deal that might work for guys running 9" wheels. Hoosier has discontinued road race slicks, medium compound 23.5" x 12" x 15" for $110 with free shipping.

R888 crap? You do know that R888s by Toyo are basically the same tire as the Nitto NT01's for compound? Nitto is made/owned by Toyo

I thought the RA-1 was the NT-01's brother, not the R888.

FWIW both the RA-1, R888, and NT-01 have an AA A 100 (traction/temp/treadwear) rating. I had hoped that would be a differentiator but it is not. That does not mean they are all the same. There could be significant differences in the carcass and the tread compounds, not to mention the tread patterns which are all clearly different. RA-1 and NT-01 are slightly more similar on the tread pattern.

I was running the NT-01s on my LS1 Miata at Harris Hill (counterclockwise) this weekend. Clearly with the LS1 I can easily induce some throttle oversteer on the slow corners. The tires had good manners; I was able to control the corner exit rear traction pretty easily with the throttle since break away was predictable. That is a lot of fun.

Where? Link please.

https://www.hoosiertire.com/discontinuedtires.htm

Sorry I forgot to put this up. They always have a list of discontinued tires they are blowing out at the Hoosier website. You have to click on the "begin shopping" tab on this page. They don't have a "direct" link. Have to go through this page.

Thanks.

Good price, but not a good fit on 9" (they recommend 14" rim width). That tire is close to a 305/35/15.

I've got some 23.0x10x15 on 9" and they fit pretty good on the rim. Just a little smaller than 275's.

Hoosier as some really good prices for wets in that discounted section (I'm constantly looking there). Hoosier > crack.

The R888 is not the same compound as the RA1/NT01. The stiffer side wall made the tires very sensative to tire pressure, heat cycling, and cupping. You are better served running the RA1 for life or NT01 for more grip. There is a reason Spec Miata dropped the R888 after the 09 season. Problems were being reported as early as December of 08 under private testing.

Everyone needs to remember that there are 4 levels of driving so your actual opinion on a tire might very from driver to driver.

Slow and smooth level 1 aka "Sunday Drive"
'Overdrive" Slow but hard on tires brakes
"Smooth" Fast with barely any wear over Sunday Drive
"Wheelman" threshold braking, trail braking, throttle steering, etc, etc same wear as overdrive, plus other weird things, fastest guys on track

lol

Edit: Also never buy used Hoosiers, they are most likely heat cycled out. We had a guy a couple of months ago run his star specs on Saturday for practice, then mount up some used Hoosier's and run 2 sec slower on a 45 sec course...lol

I drove on 3 sets of tires this past weekend in the rain.

A totally bald set of Nitto NT01s with minimal moisture on the track. A set of 60-75% tread NT01s with tons of standing water and a set of Hancook RS3s just about full tread depth.

I liked the hancooks in the rain the best, despite my best lap being on the 50% NT01s (conditions were different, not full downpour with the nittos)

Might get flamed, i haven't purchased a real set of tires since my last set of azenis rt-615... um, about three years ago. I have a extra set of k1's from my e30 that i will be using as a auto-x/track wheel for the time being until i need to step into a 8 when the miata receives more power.

Why do you guys rate the RS3 higher then the Direzza Star Spec, Kumho XS, or Potenza RE-11 if they are all extreme performance Summers? I am doing a track day on the 14th of November and i am considering the NT-01's or one of the above street tire since they are all in the same ballpark on price... Would you recommend the Nt-01 in the following conditions:
Monticello 4.1mi full Course
1) 45-65 degrees' since it is in the middle of November
2) First day out on the track in the Miata, will be getting a auto-x under my belt on a loaned set of tires/wheels tomorrow.

Just trying to get a good idea from people with experience since these will be used for the beginning of 2011's season for HPDE/Auto-x use.

I just don't want to have to spend twice.

Thanks

I wouldn't recommend any R compound for your 1st time on track, especially on a cold day. You will spend the entire day trying to figure out a consistent line, braking & turn-in points. Monty is a fast track that takes whole day to learn for pretty much anybody. You will not have the brain capacity left to try and process the input from non-screaming non-street tires.

My recommendation - drive on whatever street tire got you there. The aural feedback and wider temperature range of a street tire will be a benefit 1st time out in the cold.

I have ran Monticello with other cars just not with the miata yet and you are right it is super technical. I am probably jumping the gun here on getting a set of R-Comps since i still lack experience with them and with not being able to predict weather i am better off being on a street tire.


Everywhere i see the RS3 listed as a extreme performance street tire, why does everybody prefer them over the XS, RE11, or Star Spec? Do the RS3's react better for thirty minute heats compared to the other options?

RS3 comes in 225, Z1 comes in 205. XSs are terrible in the rain from what I've heard.

Anyone ever use Goodyear slicks? I can get some used. Thinking about it.

currently using AD08's on 205 50's. couldnt be happier. will prob try the rs3's next though just for kicks. should have new wheels by spring for new rubber.

Just ordered 255 width RS3 as a do everything tire for the S2000.