Too much tire???
 

I'm looking down the road a little and suppose I had the the skill of a F1 driver and was looking to make my miata into the fastest Time Attack/Road Race Miata ever. Assuming the car would be built with extensive Aero/downforce/ducting and flared wheel arches to support basically an unlimited tire width(custom rim). At what point would the width of the tire start to slow the car? I assume there are a few variables (power, weight/downforce, more (not really thinking too indepth right now))

I cant even really find a 15" tire with anything larger than 275. I know they make them but aren't common. Like I said this is all completly hypothetical at this point and please don't throw out some BS as I am just curious if anyone has done anything like this.

Would it be worth going to a 16 or 17" rim to have more tire options? and Bigger brakes?

I realize this is all probably overkill and testing will be the only true answer but if there is any true, relevant answers/opinions they would be greatly appreciated.

Avon makes a 275/570/R15 Radial Slick, Section width 11.40", Tread width 10.70"

If you manage to get those under your car I would be impressed.

I'm guessing that anything you find wider than a 275 in a 16 or 17 inch wheel is going to be considerably taller than what will fit under something that could reasonably be identified as a miata.

Are we talking massive HP, corrected suspension geometry, etc...?

In the real world, you would be hard pressed to need more than a 275 on a Miata. The amount of $$ it would take to build a Miata that could really use something bigger would be better spent on a better car.

Last weekend in 90* heat on 275 R6's I couldn't even get them past 150*, and they achieve optimum grip at 190*! This is in a 220whp car with aero (admittedly not the most abusive setup, but it gives you an idea)

Check what Hoosier has in inch sizes if you really want bigger 15's

If you are planning on making time-attack levels of power (400+whp) there is no tire on the market today that is too wide.

I am.....

"Are we talking massive HP, corrected suspension geometry, etc...?"

Yes(500 maybe more eventually), possibily but trying to stay with original geometry with a lower offset rim

"I'm guessing that anything you find wider than a 275 in a 16 or 17 inch wheel is going to be considerably taller than what will fit under something that could reasonably be identified as a miata. "

I wouldn't care as long as it would fit. Would give me more top end.

"Avon makes a 275/570/R15 Radial Slick, Section width 11.40", Tread width 10.70"

Dont think there would be any issues, i would build to fit. I'm really looking for tires with widths ranging from 275-305

Hoosier 23.5X11R 16 and 23.5X12R 16 R75 compound radial slicks. Goodyear makes similar sizes as well designed for GT2 class cars of some sort. I have seen them used quite effectively on NC Miatas. They are only ½” bigger overall diameter than really fits on an stock inner rendered NA/NB Miata. It is my intention to build a simi tube framed Miata around this size tire within the next few years. Though at this point I think I plan on sticking with 11” rather than 12” wide and use 16X11” wheels.

Bob

275/35/15 DOT Hooser versus 23.5X11R16 Radial Slick Hoosier.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...4&d=1317098216
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...5&d=1317098216

I suspect the 23.5x12R16 Hoosier is the widest "stock" diameter tire available.

I'm not sure if rules had an impact on their decision, but Sierra Sierra which is a practically unlimited budget team, runs between 250 & 295.

At those tire temps I would try A6's. They operate best between 140-150 degrees.

Dayum....I do believe that would pull 2G:drool:

Any rim options you're familiar with?

I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately I DO have a limited budget and I'm guessing A6's would wear out VERY fast. I think my best bet is just to downsize to 225 R6's until I add another 100whp.

Also, at what point/tire size does it start to become difficult without power steering?

Boost you are building the wrong motor if you want time attack 5-600+hp.


to do well at time attack you also have to have




good driving skillz

You're reaching a little too far into the hypothetical world.

At the point at which you have enough power and chassis to handle 275 r-comps and 400+hp properly on a Miata, you better have a planned fitness regime to keep yourself healthy and strong enough to handle a car without power steering.

I wonder how many of these bullshit threads its going to take before he ACTUALLY gets his car up and running and putting down power, much less actually competing with 500+ whp.

Seriously...

This horn tooting is getting so pathetic its just sad.
I have A QUAIFE
I have a 500WHP SETUP
I have FIFTEEN BY TEN RIMZZ
I am PRO F1 DRIVER
I AM BUILDING SERIOUSLY FAST CAR
etc


Just finish it then talk dude
You "overnighted parts from japan", we get that, and power to you for spending the dough, but come on.

I was just on 275 R6s all weekend w/o power steering and barely noticed :dunno:

*

Vlad, I didnt create this thread or any thread to brag....just throwing out ideas and seeing what has been done/proven and what hasn't.

I have tracked many things, carts(when I was younger), Honda's, Nissans, bikes a vette I had for a while, and a t25 miata I used to have. Currently I have a 05 RSX-S modded(daily, for sale/trade), 350z Track, and 2 miata's The one I'm building up and my screw around town sr20(gt2871) miata(350 whp) and the ducati 748. Going this week to hopefully trade by RSX for a Stage 3 B5 S4, a little more suitable daily.

Anyway, lets not focus on if I can handle it, why not just encourage me to do it?? You wouldn't like to see me build a car I cant handle?? :giggle:

Pics of all your other cars plz

I've no track experience. That's why every thread/question I make is specifically labeled "street car".

And yeah, until I see tons of pics/info from OP these threads are all just piss in the wind.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337660988

I own 20 ferraris, 69 lambos, and daily a veyron on slicks.
I also have a 8 foot dick and have to fight off supermodels who want to ---- me every day.

I wonder what kinda dildo shifter I should get for my pagani zonda
+1

I count at least 47 ninjas in that photo.

Warm, caring ninjas.

lol, how are you at -190 props?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :winner:

Thank you 18psi for making my night

I know you don't track any of your cars, vlad. I wanted to know about boost joose and his track xp. I'm not trying to call him out or anything it's just 500hp in a track prepped miata with serious rubber to me would be retarded fast. It obviously takes some balls to drive something like that to the limit, just curious why he thinks he has the balls to do it.

souper boneir

I am sad tho cus i met this stripper earlier who was cute and hoish as shi and i failed tonclose on her

How long was her dick?

All of it.

LOL

"What's your track experience, boost? Just curious. But it must be some impressive ---- to make you think you can handle a -500hp coffin on slicks-."

Dann

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337688046[/url]
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337688046[/url]
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337688046[/url]

Edit: The power plant
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7087/7...d542e622_b.jpg

All I could get to this morning before work. The car in question and bike are at 2 different shops.

Ok, can we get this thread back on topic, and off me?

Since Sierra Sierra and many other time attack teams are using a "smaller tire" than they're capable of this leads me to think there is some truth to having too much tire. But then again I saw this imprezza set the Road Atlanta time attack record there on 305 18's 2 weekends ago....
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=44094&dateline=1337688 046[/IMG][/url]

Wheels would be custom.

Real,
Bogart,
Kodiak,
Spinwerks,

Or somthing. Real I think is very resonably priced for a custom wheel.
And FWIW I have been really impressed with a Nisan GTR flared and running 345/30/19’s on all four corners talk about tire.

As an example of what it might look like.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1337704520

Do yourself a favor and stop making assumptions like that, dude. Time attack teams use smaller tires because an uber-sticky tire like a Hankook C91 or other one-lap special may not come in a 335/345/355 size. The only reason you would have for using a smaller tire is to reduce the aero footprint of the car, and you can do that in other ways that don't harm the ability of the car to get all the power down.

You've obviously never driven a 400+whp Miata - suggesting that a narrower tire might be faster is amusing to say the least.

There is also the factor of how much heat can you get into the tire. In a Miata that only weighs 2000lbs, you're going to have a hell of a time getting some of the larger tires up to temp for a time attack session.

:jerkit: You act like I'm suggesting a 185 would be better than a 275. All I'm questioning is at what point does the tire width/size/overall weight become a hinderance to speed? I know you can not answer this question straight up due to the variation of variables in my car and any car that might have run a super wide tire.

Ex: A 500 tread width tire(if it was made and possible to fit) would not be faster than a 275 hoosier. But does anyone have any solid info at what point/power level it would become questionable?

I know a NC DP miata running autocross that seems to get enough heat in 23.5X11 R16 R75 compund over 60 second runs to be favord for a national championship. because of 10" wide wheels and 2.0L displacement minimum weight is ~2200 lbs for the class. car needs ~180 lbs of ballast to met weight.

Bob

Bbundy, do you have any idea on how much a 16x12 or 16x11 rim would be from the companies you listed above? I like the CCW Classic 4 design and I have a friend with a vette with CCW's he races with and they are light and great quality. They price them at $625 a piece for the 16's and that's pretty steep but I know you get what you pay for. I was just curious if you had any personal experience or knew anyone that dealt with the companies you listed on qulity and pricing.

Thanks

No one can answer that. Finding the fastest tire size is an exercise in optimization and will depend on the track, the car setup, the driver, and the weather conditions.

And as much as I hate to disagree with Sav, bigger is not always better. I personally know plenty of Corvette guys that have shaved time by reducing their tire sizes.

Jesus ----, stop posting.

lol @ being the flat-out guy. Also, lol @ a B5 S4 with K04's being a "suitable daily". It's a great car when it's not on a tow truck.

more pics of engine bays. unimpressed so far.

Trey, believe me, I don't need any advise, opinions, or $hit from you so please do not respond to anything I say(for the 10000th time) as everything that comes from the tips of your fingers is a waste of space used on the internet.

kthx

You're lack of respect for me is part of your problem. See, I've been tracking a 250whp Miata for the last three years. You could probably learn something from my experience. However, you're totally unlikable and will die a virgin, hence why I won't grovel to your signature of bullshit hopes and dreams about a car that will never hit those numbers on a real dyno and will never be tracked reliably.

Let us know when you've done something rather than talk about it. People like you are a cancer on the forum, you run-off the people who've done the work, spent the money, and have the experience to share. Savington answered your question a few pages ago, but you disagreed with him and kept yapping. There are a select few people here who keep this forum going and provide information you can't get anywhere else, so try to be a little more respectful to them. Some of us who spent an extra $10k in mistakes so people like you get to keep your money deserve a little more respect.

A few years ago we would have banned someone like you because you have provided nothing to this forum, your prop-rating clearly indicates this.

Let me get you a fuking tissue.


Haha really? I started to build up a Miata from scratch in December and I throw out some arbitrary ideas and you think I'll have a POS for some reason. Let me guess you had your t25 miata togaether in a week? Right :jerkit: Be patient

Main Entry: hustler  [huhs-ler] Show IPA/ˈhʌslər/ Show Spelled
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: con artist; prostitute
Synonyms: call girl, cheater, fast talker, floozy, grifter, hooker, rip-off artist, scam artist, streetwalker, swindler


Prop rating = High School popularity contest = Not on my priority list(obviously) :giggle:

No, it was a long road to get it where it is today and it required some innovation and the ABSURDflow savior.
I prefer "floozy".
lol, ok.

The Cheap ones I have considered were Spinwerks which I think run about $310 each. A friend has Real which I think were even cheaper maybe 250 each. I think they weigh between 15 and 16 lbs. Bogart is probably even cheaper than CCW but still expensive.

If you’re worried about those costs then you have no business building a 400 hp track car Miata. to do a 400hp track car Miata well and you’re not thinking you’re going to dump 20 to 30k or more into the build then you’re not doing it right. You might be able to build a 400 hp Miata that you can take to the track for less but it will be a slow POS that breaks down all the time.

Bob

Ha, sucks to think about it but there will easily be 30k in this thing. Over 9k just in suspension and bracing, 2k brakes, 12k+ engine/turbo setup, 3k+ AEM/Racepake/misc electronics, 6-8k wheels and tires, 3k+ seats and harnesses, much more to go and that's 32-35 right there :facepalm:

If you think you're only spending 12k on a 400whp track turbo drivetrain, you have another thing coming.

Based on your numbers, you're looking at a $50-60k build, so we'd all appreciate it if you would just stop whining about the cost.

My 250whp car is on the limit of mechanical thrifty-ness. I don't know how you guys afford the drivetrain and wear item service intervals of 250whp+. At my output level and brakes, I still think it costs about the same as an NA powered Miata to race...it just goes a lot faster. My racecar is a ship that will never come in, but will definitely be about fuel economy, lightness, and cost. PTD Miata is looking a lot more attractive than anything else these days when you consider fuel and tire costs.

I formally decry Joose; he shall be Boost from the site.

:laugh:

Praise Jehova. He was too annoying for this place.

Do you guys think the ebay tubro kit will last 3 years of track events? Also, no one seems to run the 275 Nitto NT-555 tire, I think I'm going to try it. They're only $169/tire too!

I'm thinking about a rear-mount tubro once I'm done with the ebay kit, going with a smaller tubro so it won't lag as much with the extra long cooler-pipes I'll have to run.

k, thx

This is an interesting point. It would be a great sticky if we could build a list of what parts you can expect to need and what you will have to consider wear items on a track car at various power levels.

PTE is where all the competition is.

Whatever, I'm about a decade away from buying a tow rig these days anyway. It will probably never happen.