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Old 11-20-2013, 09:47 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by mr_hyde View Post
I'm putting helper bags on the truck this winter to help the level the load. Fully loaded with spares, wheels/tires, tools and fuel is quite a bit when you add a few hundreds pounds to the tongue on top of it. That said, I love my budget tow setup.
Equalizer hitch will achieve a similar result and should generally ride and tow better fwiw. Sounds like a great setup.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:07 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by vtjballeng View Post
Equalizer hitch will achieve a similar result and should generally ride and tow better fwiw. Sounds like a great setup.
No, an equalizer hitch, being the brand Equal-i-zer or a generic WD hitch functions completely differently than what he described. If you have 1000lb of tongue weight on a hitch and level the truck with air bags, theres still 1000lb of tongue weight on the hitch and its associated leverage on the rear axle. The WD hitch effectively moves the pivot point for the hitch weight back onto the truck and the trailer.

Also worth mentioning, hitches arent created equal. You cant use a weight distribution hitch with a receiver unless its designed for it, and on a 91 F150, Im willing to bet that receiver isnt designed for it if its OEM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:49 AM   #263
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No, an equalizer hitch, being the brand Equal-i-zer or a generic WD hitch functions completely differently than what he described. If you have 1000lb of tongue weight on a hitch and level the truck with air bags, theres still 1000lb of tongue weight on the hitch and its associated leverage on the rear axle. The WD hitch effectively moves the pivot point for the hitch weight back onto the truck and the trailer.
Haha. Not offering the hyphenated variation warrants a No huh? The prior point is not invalidated by the method of function (which was intentionally not described for brevity). The similar result is that he will no longer have a sagging *** while towing and will ride better.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:09 AM   #264
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Haha. Not offering the hyphenated variation warrants a No huh? The prior point is not invalidated by the method of function (which was intentionally not described for brevity). The similar result is that he will no longer have a sagging *** while towing and will ride better.
Wat. You do understand that the Equal-i-zer and E2 hitches are significantly different in function than a chain link WD hitch, right? I digress...

Ride better? Sure. Still be overloaded on hitch, tires and GAWR. Yep. Airbags and helper springs doesn't change that scenario.

My point that you're apparently too dense to understand is that your assertion that airbags and WD hitches achieve the same results is completely and utterly wrong.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:15 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post
My point that you're apparently too dense to understand is that your assertion that airbags and WD hitches achieve the same results is completely and utterly wrong.
Air bags and WD hitches both get rid of rear end sag from tongue weight, the WD hitch has the benefit of also towing and riding better/safer than just airbags.

And obviously with a WD hitch you're going to be installing the receiver that matches the hitch. And probably and anti sway as well.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:25 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Air bags and WD hitches both get rid of rear end sag from tongue weight, the WD hitch has the benefit of also towing and riding better/safer than just airbags.

And obviously with a WD hitch you're going to be installing the receiver that matches the hitch. And probably and anti sway as well.
Sure, but a WD hitch also transfers weight to the rear axle of the trailer and the steer axle of the truck, which is not what airbags and helper springs do. Ergo, not the same result.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:29 AM   #267
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Sure, but a WD hitch also transfers weight to the rear axle of the trailer and the steer axle of the truck, which is not what airbags and helper springs do. Ergo, not the same result.
Yes, but a better result.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by vtjballeng View Post
Equalizer hitch will achieve a similar result and should generally ride and tow better fwiw. Sounds like a great setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post
Wat. You do understand that the Equal-i-zer and E2 hitches are significantly different in function than a chain link WD hitch, right? I digress...
I wrote Equalizer but did not write it with hyphenation. Only you have mentioned a WD hitch. To the benefit of the thread they are different which is why I wrote Equalizer hitch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post
Ride better? Sure. Still be overloaded on hitch, tires and GAWR. Yep. Airbags and helper springs doesn't change that scenario.

My point that you're apparently too dense to understand is that your assertion that airbags and WD hitches achieve the same results is completely and utterly wrong.
I said similar results intentionally. Helper springs are cheaper & simpler in some ways. Equalizer hitch will provide many other benefits as mentioned. I like the Equalizer hitch, own one and use it to tow my turbo Miata. It helps greatly when I am towing my enclosed 7x16 loaded with a Miata towed by a Tacoma due to weight redistribution and sway control (another benefit of Equalizer hitch). I am recommending it here and chose brevity in explanation.

Apparently brevity allowed for ambiguity causing a visceral and narrow interpretation along the lines of nuh uh, you're stupid... and a poopy face.

Also, image attached for solution of the day ( I think this is just another angle from the same setup pictured earlier in the thread ).
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:56 AM   #269
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Dat picture. As someone who has driven an F250SD with 1200 pounds of composite decking in a latter rack at about the same height as that miata. DO NOT WANT. That was awful, I felt like I was going to tip over while making a lane change, and the extra drag required full throttle to maintain 70 going up a slight hill on the highway. The drag is worse than an enclosed trailer.
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:49 PM   #270
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I had a rollover accident on the interstate in an Envoy/Trailblazer towing a tandem axle open car trailer and a Nissan Skyline. I lived, so thumbs up for that, but the rear coil springs were a bit too soft imo. Something went wrong with the trailer so I can't blame the truck.
Well, yes you can. That is the whole point of using a car like vehicle vs a truck to tow with. The compromises in ride in an Envoy are just what you said - soft springs. Most of the time, under all ordinary circumstances, your Envoy worked wonderfully well. It does seem in that emergency, not so well. This is a trade off we all make and we assume that level of risk.

My tow rig is WAY overkill when I pull one car on a 20' open two axle trailer, but I can see no way that trailer will flip my long bed, crew cab, F350 dually. Now if something goes "wrong" with my triple axle 43' enclosed goose neck, that weighs over 15K with two cars and spares - yeah, maybe. But so far I've survived two tires blowing out on the same side and all we noticed was the big BANG, then the little bang.

I've had many tow rigs over the years, starting with a 68 Ranchero. The one lesson I've learned is to use the biggest and heaviest rig you can afford. Reality is that almost no one would buy a truck like mine for a little open trailer, and I didn't either. If I had the spare filthy lucre I would get one of those Freightliner rigs they now sell as toterhomes. Hell, you can pick one up for less than 200K! That is how to go racing!

I am glad you made it through your roll over though. Bad enough to break our toys, but even worse to break our bodies.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:36 PM   #271
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LOL. And we are back to the "you need a locomotive to pull a 16' open trailer" school of thought. Again. I have pulled my car....literally all over the Eastern U.S. with an Envoy XUV. It has survived 2 blow outs and a bearing failure on the trailer. Pulling through cities, mountains, heavy traffic, rain, snow, high winds....you name it.....not one single issue.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:41 PM   #272
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LOL. And we are back to the "you need a locomotive to pull a 16' open trailer" school of thought. Again. I have pulled my car....literally all over the Eastern U.S. with an Envoy XUV. It has survived 2 blow outs and a bearing failure on the trailer. Pulling through cities, mountains, heavy traffic, rain, snow, high winds....you name it.....not one single issue.

I think he is just saying, the bigger the tow rig the better. Not necessarily that you NEED something that big...
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Old 11-28-2013, 03:01 PM   #273
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I think he is just saying, the bigger the tow rig the better. Not necessarily that you NEED something that big...
Exactly right.

BTW, the toterhome idea is really from my wife. She won't sleep in my enclosed car trailer with the rest of us guys - says it isn't ladylike FWIW, I used to sleep in the back of my Ranchero at the track - it did have a cap and it was a LOT better than a tent. Today, 30 years later, I feel I am in the lap of luxury sleeping in my enclosed trailer as it has AIR CONDITIONING! Whoo Hoo!

A point no one has mentioned about all those European cars with their trailers? In Germany, they are restricted to the right lane of the AutoBahn along with the trucks - 80 KPH (48 MPH) as I recall. On secondary roads, that may be reduced to 60 KPH (36 MPH). We run a bit quicker than that over here.
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Old 11-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #274
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A point no one has mentioned about all those European cars with their trailers? In Germany, they are restricted to the right lane of the AutoBahn along with the trucks - 80 KPH (48 MPH) as I recall. On secondary roads, that may be reduced to 60 KPH (36 MPH). We run a bit quicker than that over here.
Yep. Everyone selectively forgets to mention that fact about European-style rigs. Here in CA, my standard operating speed is 65mph, and that creeps to 75-80mph when I'm north or east of the CA border. Can't go that fast without a long wheelbase and a bunch of weight.
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:31 PM   #275
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Yep. Here in CA, my standard operating speed is 65mph, and that creeps to 75-80mph when I'm north or east of the CA border. Can't go that fast without a long wheelbase and a bunch of weight.
My personal best (or stupid) story was a few years back. Pulling my 43 footer with my 7.3 F350, two cars on board. Me and Richard in truck. Going to Roebling Road in GA. Running about 70, heading down I-95 in SC about an hour out when my buddy Steve goes by with his Dodge diesel truck pulling his 26 footer.

I can't let him by, so I floor it. 75, 80, 85, 90 - 93 MPH! Slowly going by the Dodge when Richard, very cool and calm, looks over at me and says: "You know, I kinda wonder what the speed rating on those trailer tires is?"

We immediately resumed our 70 mph pace.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:52 PM   #276
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The Trailblazer was my buddy's, as was the trailer and Skyline. It was a brand new tandem axle trailer. Something broke or backed out in the trailer axle mounting hardware and after two hours of dead level smooth towing it snatched the back end of the truck loaded down with tools and tires right, left, right, so hard it was sideways at 70 mph in the middle of three lanes. Would it have done it in a 10000lb crew cab dually? No, because he couldn't have afforded the car, the defective trailer, the fuel, or the track day if he had to have a truck like that in his driveway.
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Old 11-29-2013, 01:08 AM   #277
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Driving my dads Ram 1500 v8 with a 24' enclosed hallmark is a pain in the *** its slow as **** feels very dangerous even though its rated to tow that amount. Never mind the last time I used it the water pump took a **** since the truck got such a beating.

I love my 3500 ram diesel I usually tow a heavy duty 24' open trailer but it's like nothing is back there. Its plenty fast for merging with 400whp/650tq and I feel safe. Thats what really counts for me, after a long day at the track I'm beat. I don't want to be worried about towing my **** home. Crank the a/c, lean back, relax and enjoy the few hour trip home knowing I will make it safely.

I'd like get a longer gooseneck trailer so I can tow another car or possibly a 3 car hauler and help some my friends getting to the track.

Why all hate for having an overkill hauler? My truck has more space, more room, more towing capacity, better mpg(19city/ 21towing about 6k pounds / 24 hwy) than a envoy. Its also very easy to work on, cheap parts, and reliable. I see absolutely no advantage to owning a smaller gas powered suv or truck.

Last edited by natedawg; 11-29-2013 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 11-29-2013, 02:20 AM   #278
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Driving my dads Ram 1500 v8 with a 24' enclosed hallmark is a pain in the *** its slow as **** feels very dangerous even though its rated to tow that amount. Never mind the last time I used it the water pump took a **** since the truck got such a beating.

I love my 3500 ram diesel I usually tow a heavy duty 24' open trailer but it's like nothing is back there. Its plenty fast for merging with 400whp/650tq and I feel safe. Thats what really counts for me, after a long day at the track I'm beat. I don't want to be worried about towing my **** home. Crank the a/c, lean back, relax and enjoy the few hour trip home knowing I will make it safely.

I'd like get a longer gooseneck trailer so I can tow another car or possibly a 3 car hauler and help some my friends getting to the track.

Why all hate for having an overkill hauler? My truck has more space, more room, more towing capacity, better mpg(19city/ 21towing about 6k pounds / 24 hwy) than a envoy. Its also very easy to work on, cheap parts, and reliable. I see absolutely no advantage to owning a smaller gas powered suv or truck.
Price. Plus a truck is pretty useless on a regular basis. You can't sleep in a truck without adding a camper thing (and even then, its not as comfortable as an suv/van & additional cost). An suv can be used to haul your buddies around, while that's less likely in a truck (unless once again, you pay extra for a bigger cab). Trucks will also required weighted plates (depending on your state I guess), while SUVs and vans won't.
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:27 AM   #279
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Why all hate for having an overkill hauler? My truck has more space, more room, more towing capacity, better mpg(19city/ 21towing about 6k pounds / 24 hwy) than a envoy. Its also very easy to work on, cheap parts, and reliable. I see absolutely no advantage to owning a smaller gas powered suv or truck.
What 3500 gets 21 towing and 24 highway?
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:13 AM   #280
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LOL. And we are back to the "you need a locomotive to pull a 16' open trailer" school of thought.
I think Team DNR was just commenting on the risk vs reward compromise. "This is a trade off we all make and we assume that level of risk." You could think of the size of a tow rig like insurance.

A diesel dually to tow a Miata on an open trailer for HPDE is like having a massive amount of life insurance, plus disability insurance, plus long-term care insurance. It's almost surely overkill but you are definitely covered for worst-case scenarios.

A BMW 540i Touring is like having a small group life policy paid for by your employer.

Everything else is somewhere in between, with tradeoffs in terms of protection and opportunity costs that will be specific to the person's scenario.

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I see absolutely no advantage to owning a smaller gas powered suv or truck.
Then you should own a big truck.

For others, we do see big advantages depending on the details. I would be miserable if I had to drive a big truck every day. I sold a nice G35 Sport because it was an automatic and I couldn't deal with that.


This ticks all my boxes for an ideal tow vehicle, except for price. Porsche Macan Turbo with a weight : power ratio better than a lot of sports cars (~400 BHP, ~400 TQ, 4200 lbs); expected to be the best handling, most dynamic SUV available; will utilize one of the best automated manual gearboxes; and looks pretty cool in my opinion.



Besides the ridiculous pricing, I am also not sure it will be rated as high as the Q5 cousin (4,400 lbs tow capacity) because of the Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe.



Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go check the internet for cool Ranchero and El Camino builds...
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