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Old 12-17-2012, 08:55 PM   #21
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I'd tend to call Savington a reliable source, but I understand why you wouldn't trust Hustler
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:13 PM   #22
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I'd tend to call Savington a reliable source, but I understand why you wouldn't trust Hustler
LOL yeah sometimes i think hustler only plays a dick online and is a decent guy IRL, other days I'm not sure lol

I was mostly talking about other track side advice i've had, the stuff from the TDR guy was mostly opposite what others have told me hence the OP and observations on cooling tests at the track.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:13 PM   #23
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Is that silver strip thing a part of a vent in the back of the bonnet?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:20 AM   #24
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I was mostly talking about other track side advice i've had, the stuff from the TDR guy was mostly opposite what others have told me
What high-horsepower Miata prepped by TDR has consistently run 5+ seconds under SM record at every track in Texas?

Bottom line is that I've been doing this for years and years, I push my cars harder than 99.9% of my customers ever will, and as such I am able to sell real solutions to real problems that other shops may never even run across.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:04 AM   #25
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i plan to fix things, and fWIW i didnt cut the bumper it was like that when I bought the car.

the problem for people new to miatas like me is that half the people you talk too or that look at the car say one thing, the other half says something else entirely and then people want to get pissy when you ask more questions and bring up something that was recommended by that other half.
The first email I returned to you 6-months ago suggested you properly duct the car, today it's still not done. I gave you my best advice, I offered to let you come look at my ducting, I sent you pics of my ducting, you admitted your ducting is not sealed-up. Now four people have told you this, and all four track(ed) 250whp+ Miatas in the heat. Yes, sometimes I sound like a dick. I don't have a dog in this fight, do whatever you want; I can't possibly attempt to help anymore than I already have.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:31 AM   #26
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What high-horsepower Miata prepped by TDR has consistently run 5+ seconds under SM record at every track in Texas?

Bottom line is that I've been doing this for years and years, I push my cars harder than 99.9% of my customers ever will, and as such I am able to sell real solutions to real problems that other shops may never even run across.
i'm not doubting you at all Sav, nor you hustler. it's not fixed yet mostly because of a combo of a lack of skills and a lack of time.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:44 PM   #27
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I was working on my ducting tonight so I decided to take some pictures for you. I have a reroute, and TSE radiator. I use the stock belly pan with holes cut in it to fit intercooler piping through. I then used the cheap plastic boards that political signs are made out of the close up the front and sides of my intercooler. It is not the greatest ducting, but it works for now.


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Old 12-18-2012, 07:49 PM   #28
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nice, thanks for the pics. i have some printed out of hustlers set up too. It's hard to tell, the front bumper is removed in those or is it not?

Also i may have done a better job ducting than i thought, you have better fit around the intercooling tubes, but otherwise its similar to what i did only i used roll plastic and some aluminum angles with rivets and duct tape.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:56 PM   #29
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nice, thanks for the pics. i have some printed out of hustlers set up too. It's hard to tell, the front bumper is removed in those or is it not?
The front bumper is not removed in those pictures. Also using cereal boxes, or card board of that thinness is the easiest way to mock up everything. I think I have about 5-7 hours total into my ducting work. Total tools needed were a box cutter and scissors.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:26 PM   #30
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The front bumper is not removed in those pictures. Also using cereal boxes, or card board of that thinness is the easiest way to mock up everything. I think I have about 5-7 hours total into my ducting work. Total tools needed were a box cutter and scissors.
man i have lots more stuff in those areas then, it was hard to get to.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:30 PM   #31
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Poverty silicone ITT.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:47 PM   #32
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man i have lots more stuff in those areas then, it was hard to get to.
Proper ducting is a PITA to do, I will no deny that. What else do you have in those areas? Your oil cooler is behind your radiator, so you don't have to worry about those lines.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:29 AM   #33
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Proper ducting is a PITA to do, I will no deny that. What else do you have in those areas? Your oil cooler is behind your radiator, so you don't have to worry about those lines.
there are some supports and the silicone hoses from the intercooler are bigger than your metal ones. i also have 3-inch diameter brake cooling ducts in the vicinity.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:03 PM   #34
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I ordered up the TSE radiator today, should be here early in Jan. While I have the old radiator out Ill flush the cooling system (the water in it looks like a mud puddle) and then do proper ducting while all the intercooler hoses are off. I guess i will have a 37mm koyo rad for sale soon.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:06 PM   #35
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If you do not have the reroute then you also need to order that to. It is worth the money. If you are really cheap you can read all the threads on here on how to do it cheap.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:31 PM   #36
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If you do not have the reroute then you also need to order that to. It is worth the money. If you are really cheap you can read all the threads on here on how to do it cheap.
yeah i will order it, i wanted to do the radiator first and i need to replace the brake pads and rotors so i can get the car back on the track. I'll order the reroute once my wallet recovers from the purchase of the radiator and brakes. i wish i purchased one of the wilwood BBKs for the miata when they were on sale a few months ago for $499.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:59 PM   #37
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You can do the reroute for about $125 or so. You order the Begi spacer, get the kia water neck, and the GM coolant hose. Then get the TSE front block off plate.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:44 PM   #38
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Yep, you (and TDR) are missing something big: Thicker radiators do more than simply add water to the system. Thicker radiators add heat rejection ability which drops the equilibrium (operating) temperature of the system. Dual-row radiators do an even better job of this by significantly increasing the amount of transfer area between the incoming air and the coolant in the cores. A car that runs 230+*F with a Koyo 37 or a Koyo 55 will run <200*F with our radiator, because our radiator sheds more heat than the single-row Koyos do.

I don't know when this idea of "bigger radiators delay the problem" became popular, but it's total bullshit.
You are not fully correct. Just because it has the ability to shed more heat, does not mean it actually will. You have to have proper air flow and ducting. Even then, you might not see an actual improvement going with a thicker core. I guarantee a 27mm radiator with a Denso core would out perform a Koyo 37 or Koyo 55. Thickness is not the only thing that matters and actually doesn't help that much as it has diminishing returns. The main factors of heat rejection in a radiator is core cross-sectional area, air speed, and water-side Reynolds Number. Also core geometry design plays a big role. Tube spacing, fin count, and fin geometry can make or break whether a radiator will cool or not. Thicker is not better.

Also bigger radiators, aka larger water capacity, does delay the problem. It can be proved with the science of heat transfer.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:09 PM   #39
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:41 PM   #40
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Thickness is not the only thing that matters and actually doesn't help that much as it has diminishing returns. The main factors of heat rejection in a radiator is core cross-sectional area, air speed, and water-side Reynolds Number. Also core geometry design plays a big role. Tube spacing, fin count, and fin geometry can make or break whether a radiator will cool or not.
All true, but what you're conveniently forgetting is that beyond switching to dual cores (we have) and making the radiator slightly taller (we have), there is no other way of increasing core cross-sectional area other than going thicker (or tube-framing the front of the car, but I don't think that's reasonable for most people). We are restricted by the shape of the car, so we have to do what we can within the space constraints.

The gains from going thicker are diminishing, yes, and it's not the ideal way to increase heat transfer, but it's the only option that large-market aftermarket radiators have, and there are still gains to be seen. We've proven this empirically through hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing.

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Also bigger radiators, aka larger water capacity, does delay the problem. It can be proved with the science of heat transfer.
No, they don't. You are associating "bigger radiator" and "larger water capacity" without acknowledging that 1) a larger radiator with a greater transfer area from the incoming air to the coolant is going to shed more heat, and 2) larger radiators don't always have more water in them. If you put an insulated water tank with zero heat transfer capability in-line with one of the radiator hoses, then yes, it's just going to delay the problem, but the increased water capacity is not what keeps the car cooler. The truth is that our radiators actually have LESS water capacity than a Koyo 55mm, which is why (despite their size) they weigh the same when filled with water.
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