Questions about race seats.
11-29-2011, 11:36 AM
#1
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Questions about race seats.
Ok. So I am actually finally trying to track the car. I'm in the process of buying a used bar for the car and am looking at race seats.
From my understanding if I am doing DE or Trackdays an aluminum seat such as a kirkey etc. does not need a back brace?
But at the same time with my 99 seats being well old and junky from years of autoX abuse I was looking at seats that were somewhat livable in a DD. I've gotten "fat" latley and am up to 158 lbs (I was in the low 150's when playing sports in college) so most seats will fit me fine, even the smaller ones. Are there any seats that allow for the seatbelt stalk to be attatched to them, or will it be a figure out how to mount that if I want to keep it.
What about lower side bolsters so that getting in and out is not too difficult, or would that negate the benfit of a race seat. I do realize that have race seats in a DD is a compromise but I would like to lessen the impact.
I'm also looking at how to mount seats in to the car. I know people say "just buy bars and make your own." Unfortunatly I dont have the time or space to do that. Who is using prefabbed mounts? I saw some on the seat thread. I know Emilio posted that he was working on some on m.net but that was a while ago. Any suggestions.
Thanks.
From my understanding if I am doing DE or Trackdays an aluminum seat such as a kirkey etc. does not need a back brace?
But at the same time with my 99 seats being well old and junky from years of autoX abuse I was looking at seats that were somewhat livable in a DD. I've gotten "fat" latley and am up to 158 lbs (I was in the low 150's when playing sports in college) so most seats will fit me fine, even the smaller ones. Are there any seats that allow for the seatbelt stalk to be attatched to them, or will it be a figure out how to mount that if I want to keep it.
What about lower side bolsters so that getting in and out is not too difficult, or would that negate the benfit of a race seat. I do realize that have race seats in a DD is a compromise but I would like to lessen the impact.
I'm also looking at how to mount seats in to the car. I know people say "just buy bars and make your own." Unfortunatly I dont have the time or space to do that. Who is using prefabbed mounts? I saw some on the seat thread. I know Emilio posted that he was working on some on m.net but that was a while ago. Any suggestions.
Thanks.
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11-29-2011, 11:41 AM
#2
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You can make moutns out of 2" steel strapping, very easy work. All you need is a circular saw and drill with several drill bits.
The Sparco Roadster can be daily driven if you can't get a Lotus seat. It's also pretty easy to swap seats so keep that in mind.
The Sparco Roadster can be daily driven if you can't get a Lotus seat. It's also pretty easy to swap seats so keep that in mind.
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11-29-2011, 11:48 AM
#3
Ok. So I am actually finally trying to track the car. I'm in the process of buying a used bar for the car and am looking at race seats.
From my understanding if I am doing DE or Trackdays an aluminum seat such as a kirkey etc. does not need a back brace?
But at the same time with my 99 seats being well old and junky from years of autoX abuse I was looking at seats that were somewhat livable in a DD. I've gotten "fat" latley and am up to 158 lbs (I was in the low 150's when playing sports in college) so most seats will fit me fine, even the smaller ones. Are there any seats that allow for the seatbelt stalk to be attatched to them, or will it be a figure out how to mount that if I want to keep it.
What about lower side bolsters so that getting in and out is not too difficult, or would that negate the benfit of a race seat. I do realize that have race seats in a DD is a compromise but I would like to lessen the impact.
I'm also looking at how to mount seats in to the car. I know people say "just buy bars and make your own." Unfortunatly I dont have the time or space to do that. Who is using prefabbed mounts? I saw some on the seat thread. I know Emilio posted that he was working on some on m.net but that was a while ago. Any suggestions.
Thanks.
From my understanding if I am doing DE or Trackdays an aluminum seat such as a kirkey etc. does not need a back brace?
But at the same time with my 99 seats being well old and junky from years of autoX abuse I was looking at seats that were somewhat livable in a DD. I've gotten "fat" latley and am up to 158 lbs (I was in the low 150's when playing sports in college) so most seats will fit me fine, even the smaller ones. Are there any seats that allow for the seatbelt stalk to be attatched to them, or will it be a figure out how to mount that if I want to keep it.
What about lower side bolsters so that getting in and out is not too difficult, or would that negate the benfit of a race seat. I do realize that have race seats in a DD is a compromise but I would like to lessen the impact.
I'm also looking at how to mount seats in to the car. I know people say "just buy bars and make your own." Unfortunatly I dont have the time or space to do that. Who is using prefabbed mounts? I saw some on the seat thread. I know Emilio posted that he was working on some on m.net but that was a while ago. Any suggestions.
Thanks.
This is my solution, its not exactly the easiest way, but it worked for me. I would look at the 5/6pt race pic thread on m.net for other fitment suggestions. some guys have gotten local machine shops to fab up mounts for them, I was not particularly succesful with that as the local shops mostly quoted me pricing in the range of 250-350 per side!
Seat mounts wise, you can buy 17.5"x1.75"x.125" chromoly from:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/
They will do the cutting for you. You will need two of those for the passenger side. I was able to fit my RT1000 on those using the stock mounting positions/humps.
the driver's side is a little more tricky, you will have to use wider steel if you want to keep the mounts, but i am not sure how much thicker. The route that I went is to cut out the rear humps and bend the steel the opposite direction at the rears. In this case, you are much more flexible in how long it is, but you will want to keep it around 1.75" to even 2" wide so you get the seat centered or as close as possible. You will need to hammer in the tunnel for most seats if you cut the rear humps as our trans tunnel tapers down. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure you have to hammer the tunnel for most seats.
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11-29-2011, 12:11 PM
#4
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Re: side bolsters & DD. My seats are Kirkey model 47s that have a fair amount of bolstering but the only part that really gets in the way of ingress/egress is the thigh bolsters down low, not so much the "rib breakers" higher up. You learn to live with it for daily driving, but in the offseason when I don't have any track or autox events on my calendar for months at a time, I swap the stock seats back in. It's just another one of the joys of having a dual purpose street/track car.
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11-29-2011, 01:51 PM
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I already have eyebolts and backing plates for a 5/6pt harness as the PO DE'd the car. I have a 5 point sparco setup (need to check certification) that I used the lapbelt while I autoX. So mounting the stalk might not be difficult.
Trey I have not sat in a sparco roadster, but several of my friends have had sparo sprint V's in their miatas. I also do not have a saw or a drill. The POS drill that I left in my parents garage is nothing to write home about, but a few of my friends have garages and tools that I could borrow.
The idea of having one seat to bolt in and out is appealing but as a green group participate any DE group that I would start out with would require me to have an instructor in the car, with equal saftey equipment. Would I be allowed to run factory seats with a bar and a Ht bolted into place. I know that the HT would fly off in roll but if our heads are under the bar height would that be passable on stock seats? If so would it be better to wait till after I was moved up a group?
Trey I have not sat in a sparco roadster, but several of my friends have had sparo sprint V's in their miatas. I also do not have a saw or a drill. The POS drill that I left in my parents garage is nothing to write home about, but a few of my friends have garages and tools that I could borrow.
The idea of having one seat to bolt in and out is appealing but as a green group participate any DE group that I would start out with would require me to have an instructor in the car, with equal saftey equipment. Would I be allowed to run factory seats with a bar and a Ht bolted into place. I know that the HT would fly off in roll but if our heads are under the bar height would that be passable on stock seats? If so would it be better to wait till after I was moved up a group?
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11-29-2011, 02:18 PM
#6
I already have eyebolts and backing plates for a 5/6pt harness as the PO DE'd the car. I have a 5 point sparco setup (need to check certification) that I used the lapbelt while I autoX. So mounting the stalk might not be difficult.
Trey I have not sat in a sparco roadster, but several of my friends have had sparo sprint V's in their miatas. I also do not have a saw or a drill. The POS drill that I left in my parents garage is nothing to write home about, but a few of my friends have garages and tools that I could borrow.
The idea of having one seat to bolt in and out is appealing but as a green group participate any DE group that I would start out with would require me to have an instructor in the car, with equal saftey equipment. Would I be allowed to run factory seats with a bar and a Ht bolted into place. I know that the HT would fly off in roll but if our heads are under the bar height would that be passable on stock seats? If so would it be better to wait till after I was moved up a group?
Trey I have not sat in a sparco roadster, but several of my friends have had sparo sprint V's in their miatas. I also do not have a saw or a drill. The POS drill that I left in my parents garage is nothing to write home about, but a few of my friends have garages and tools that I could borrow.
The idea of having one seat to bolt in and out is appealing but as a green group participate any DE group that I would start out with would require me to have an instructor in the car, with equal saftey equipment. Would I be allowed to run factory seats with a bar and a Ht bolted into place. I know that the HT would fly off in roll but if our heads are under the bar height would that be passable on stock seats? If so would it be better to wait till after I was moved up a group?
I didn't put in race seats until I was in solo group, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. learn some driving skillz and put the racing seats in when you see fit. (in otherwords, don't rush it because you are worried your instructor's head won't clear. Its the club's responsibility to provide you with an instructor that fits.)
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11-29-2011, 02:43 PM
#7
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I had to put in my seat & harness before my first track day (and for the passenger side too, to satisfy equal restraint rules) because I'm 6'3" and needed the aluminum seat to get me under the bar. If you are vertically challenged to the point that you can fit your helmeted head under the bar with stock seats, then congrats, you save a bunch of money on your initial track prep budget.
The presence or absence of the hardtop does not change the rules regarding roll bar head clearance, it only makes it more difficult for tech or corner workers to spot the violators. The presence or absence of a roof (HT included) may or may not affect any arm restraint requirement. PCA comes to mind but I may be mis-remembering; read the rules of the group you're going to run with.
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11-30-2011, 11:29 AM
#8
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The only reason I needed to go to a Kirkey race seat was for my height to get under teh bar. NASA HPDE only requires a roll bar, stock seats, and stock belts.
My stock seat was uncomfortable as hell and I like the Kirkeys better for any period of time. Your stock seat might fit you better. I'm 6'1" and 180.
My stock seat was uncomfortable as hell and I like the Kirkeys better for any period of time. Your stock seat might fit you better. I'm 6'1" and 180.
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11-30-2011, 11:54 PM
#10
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You only have to run a seat back brace if your are racing wheel to wheel.
The Ultrasheild Rally has low sides for getting in and out.
The Lotus Elise/Exige seats are the most comfortable seat I have sat in that takes belts.
Your belts can be expired/used for hpde.
You can mount a plastic race seat on the pass side to save money.
The Ultrasheild Rally has low sides for getting in and out.
The Lotus Elise/Exige seats are the most comfortable seat I have sat in that takes belts.
Your belts can be expired/used for hpde.
You can mount a plastic race seat on the pass side to save money.
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12-01-2011, 09:05 AM
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Yeah, the brace is only required for wheel to wheel according to the NASA CCR. Besides, my Kirkey is mounted so far back because of my long legs that the seat back would only go back an inch before making contact with structure. My instructor called my 5-point harness and Kirkeys "overkill" for HPDE. But that was before he saw me drive. 
I'm sure he felt safer with them.
I personally wouldn't use a plastic seat.
I'm sure he felt safer with them.I personally wouldn't use a plastic seat.
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12-01-2011, 11:18 AM
#12
My 
My first HPDE event I had stock seats and had a blast. My second event using stock seats was much less fun. My car was much faster, and I didn't feel nearly as safe in the car when thinking about what would happen if I went off course into a wall.
I won't return to the track until my buddyclubs and harnesses are installed. I felt that my lack of safety equipment inhibited my experience.
Oh yeah: Having to be towed out of the gravel pit sucks and is embarrassing. You will pull rocks out of your undercarriage for the next year.
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot the point. Put in whatever is going to make you feel the most comfortable int he car. I would put in the back braces if I used aluminum seats. You don't want to be thinking about how the seat is going to crumple on impact while you are driving on the track.
My first HPDE event I had stock seats and had a blast. My second event using stock seats was much less fun. My car was much faster, and I didn't feel nearly as safe in the car when thinking about what would happen if I went off course into a wall.
I won't return to the track until my buddyclubs and harnesses are installed. I felt that my lack of safety equipment inhibited my experience.
Oh yeah: Having to be towed out of the gravel pit sucks and is embarrassing. You will pull rocks out of your undercarriage for the next year.
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot the point. Put in whatever is going to make you feel the most comfortable int he car. I would put in the back braces if I used aluminum seats. You don't want to be thinking about how the seat is going to crumple on impact while you are driving on the track.
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12-01-2011, 05:19 PM
#13
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My
My first HPDE event I had stock seats and had a blast. My second event using stock seats was much less fun. My car was much faster, and I didn't feel nearly as safe in the car when thinking about what would happen if I went off course into a wall.
I won't return to the track until my buddyclubs and harnesses are installed. I felt that my lack of safety equipment inhibited my experience.
Oh yeah: Having to be towed out of the gravel pit sucks and is embarrassing. You will pull rocks out of your undercarriage for the next year.
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot the point. Put in whatever is going to make you feel the most comfortable int he car. I would put in the back braces if I used aluminum seats. You don't want to be thinking about how the seat is going to crumple on impact while you are driving on the track.
My first HPDE event I had stock seats and had a blast. My second event using stock seats was much less fun. My car was much faster, and I didn't feel nearly as safe in the car when thinking about what would happen if I went off course into a wall.
I won't return to the track until my buddyclubs and harnesses are installed. I felt that my lack of safety equipment inhibited my experience.
Oh yeah: Having to be towed out of the gravel pit sucks and is embarrassing. You will pull rocks out of your undercarriage for the next year.
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot the point. Put in whatever is going to make you feel the most comfortable int he car. I would put in the back braces if I used aluminum seats. You don't want to be thinking about how the seat is going to crumple on impact while you are driving on the track.
So I guess I should check with the organization before I buy seat. I should get a few events in, as well as sit in more seats, before I make a choice. Probably more so If I enjoy it and keep doing it to the point that I am moved up to solo driving.
I am going to look at the used bar on Sunday and should be buying it. It came off a 99 so it should fit and hopefully has the same mounting points as the old bar the P.O. had in the car.
Off topic, I spun into a huge gravel pile at an autoX before. I fully understand about cleaning out rocks for months. I had them inside the frame rails
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12-03-2011, 09:51 AM
#14
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I was looking at the form
http://www.nasaproracing.com/forms/form_hpde_tech.pdf
I will probably try and wait till I get to sit in more seats to decide, as well as to check bar clearance after I pick up the bar.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/forms/form_hpde_tech.pdf
I will probably try and wait till I get to sit in more seats to decide, as well as to check bar clearance after I pick up the bar.
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12-10-2011, 09:06 AM
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I was getting a new cat welded in by a SPEC shop that I use when I dont have time to do things. I guy I know took his bar out as he had a cage built for a SPEC car. I told them to go ahead and drop the bar and my car were both already at the shop. They also re webbed and redid my lap belts and some other stuff
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12-10-2011, 02:49 PM
#18
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You guys with issues using the stock seats.....HAve any of you used them with a harness and still found them lacking?
I recently did a trackday with my foamectomied seat WITH a harness the previous owner had had installed and found it held me in far better than I expected.
I guess as I get qucker a better seat will help/be better but other than not being "cool" I didn't think it was that bad.....
I recently did a trackday with my foamectomied seat WITH a harness the previous owner had had installed and found it held me in far better than I expected.
I guess as I get qucker a better seat will help/be better but other than not being "cool" I didn't think it was that bad.....
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12-11-2011, 08:31 AM
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I felt wholey unsafe when hitting 150+ in the back straight at RA with just stock seats and belts - and no cage in a 911s... but that's probably because I'm used to having them. This wreck was in DE2 (happened right behind Track - vid in occupy RA), in a slower portion of the track. The concrete wall did a number - think what it'd be like sitting in your miata with just the stock belts? Don't know how the driver faired.
Over-kill or not? There is no over-kill when it comes to safety. Personally, I'm saving my pennies to replace the Kirkey to get a halo Sparco or Racetech - which are super comfortable too.
Over-kill or not? There is no over-kill when it comes to safety. Personally, I'm saving my pennies to replace the Kirkey to get a halo Sparco or Racetech - which are super comfortable too.
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