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Old 08-29-2012, 04:02 AM   #21
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FWIW from what I've seen...only about 20-25% of corner workers are really incompetent as the one in the story...but that's just the ones in this state that I've worked with. And I mean physically not mentally...
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Before Nick was a Miata guy, his track toy was an '02 C5Z with a 416ci LS3 stroker. He had a 3-quart accusump and would still see the "Low Oil Pressure" indicator come on around long, sweeping corners.

If you expect long-term reliability, a dry sump is not an option. His new LS1-powered build has one.
Not sure if the vette is like the rest of GM cars but the low oil pressure idiot lights is 8psi on the cars for mere mortals. Its the "you already done fucked it up light".

Whats the deficiency with the ls7 dry sump? Is it the pan, the pump, or the reservoir, or a fail on all fronts?
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:01 AM   #23
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My good friend just had his C6 blow up coming into turn 1 at Road America (I was sitting passenger). Car only had 8000miles on it and still under warranty. < Funny story actually

Anyways the LS7’s are prone to valve failure and he dropped his exhaust valve in 2 cylinders. He got a new motor under warranty and is sticking about 15k on top for better valves, exhaust, clutch, better dry sump system… blah blah blah
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:33 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 View Post
Can you put a C5 batwing pan in it?

The batwing pans are best.
Add an extra quart of oil.
Run an LS1 coolant crossover and mod the bottom of your intake to fit it.
Aftermarket fuel rails to help one of the two issues with Cylinder #7 (the other being all the remaining air in the manifold hitting that last port and making the cylinder even more lean.

Those are the cheaper things. After that its the accusump like mentioned before which I wish performance cars came with OEM.
GM built a batwing for the non-dry sumped LS3 and scrapped the project cause it didn't work. There are a half dozen floating around. It's not the oil pan. The oil pools in the top of the head and doesn't drain back to the pan in time on high G left hand (I think it's left) corners. No one has come up with a cheap fix. Acusumps don't work in real race cars only a aftermarket dry sump is a sure bet. The word is if you have an LS3 (I do) don't put on race tires without a dry sump! I do run an extra quart on track days, but that won't save you either if your on slicks. Corvettes cost way too much to put tires and brakes on, and you have to do it frequently. Just some RE-11s run $1500. Heck RS3s for the Miata are only $400+ and how long will they last? I have just as much fun in my near stock Miata and if I ball it up I won't be out $40K.

Last edited by tomiboy; 08-29-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:44 AM   #25
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Wonder if adding one more hose to the ls7 dry sump that pulled from the head with the pool would fix it. That seems so obvious that I'm sure its been tried.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:35 PM   #26
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I read up on this a while back on LS1Tech - short story seems to be what has been mentioned in a few posts above: LS1/LS6 = no oiling issues during track use; LS2 and beyond = major risks with no silver bullet fix (guys that have added an Accusump and/or the "batwing" pan are still blowing motors.

I wish I knew that before I did the two track days in my LS3 IS300, but luckily I did add an additional half quart (add'l quart is too much with the hacked pan to clear the cross member). Knowing what I know now, I won't put that car on the track unless I upgrade the lube system...which I don't plan on doing.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Wonder if adding one more hose to the ls7 dry sump that pulled from the head with the pool would fix it. That seems so obvious that I'm sure its been tried.
Supposedly the 3s have drainback issues. The 1/2/6s still have them, but not nearly as bad as the 3s do. I think I remember reading that the 7 is a different issue (something having to do with the pickup tube).

In any case, I don't regret sticking with a turbo BP in Theseus.
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomiboy View Post
(...)The oil pools in the top of the head and doesn't drain back to the pan in time on high G left hand (I think it's left) corners. (...) The word is if you have an LS3 (I do) don't put on race tires without a dry sump!
I presume that it's necessary to drill into the heads and install scavenge ports on them in such a situation as well, no?
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Supposedly the 3s have drainback issues. The 1/2/6s still have them, but not nearly as bad as the 3s do. I think I remember reading that the 7 is a different issue (something having to do with the pickup tube).

In any case, I don't regret sticking with a turbo BP in Theseus.
I've seen more than on C6GS puke a motor at the track, now I know why.
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:58 PM   #30
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This thread is kind of eye-opening to me.

also lol'ed at this -
LS7 statistical failure rate, things to look for with high miles.. - Corvette Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/2837872-ls7-statistical-failure-rate-things-to-look-for-with-high-miles.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by imman
Just clicked 139,000 and drive it the same as always, no problems.
Your kidding???
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:17 PM   #31
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I had a srs LOL moment at people using terms like "pioneer" to describe the guy hitting over 100k miles. I mean....come on.

Edit: I seriously thought that the LSx track miatas and LSx cars had almost no issues. This is surprising.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:41 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
This thread is kind of eye-opening to me.

also lol'ed at this -
LS7 statistical failure rate, things to look for with high miles.. - Corvette Forum
I wasted to much time reading that thread.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:38 PM   #33
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This happened at RA a year or so ago in front of my buddy... guess he was bouncing it off the rev limiter all weekend. 'Goodness, gracious, great ***** of fire!'

Corvette Engine Explosion from Road Atlanta on Vimeo

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track LSx crew: has anyone had one grenade-boom-.jpg  
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
In any case, I don't regret sticking with a turbo BP in Theseus.
People often ask me why I didn't go with an LS3 conversion instead of my build. My stock answer has always been that a turbo four suits the character of the car more. Perhaps I'll start citing the propensity of the Corvette motors to "blow up real good" when tracking hard.

All-in-all, I prefer to have stud issues than ventilated block issues. No more stud issues, BTW.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:02 PM   #35
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While not the norm I know someone who has popped 3-4 LS motors in his Miata. Something really strange is going on with that car. I suspect a dry sump would solve his problems.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:02 AM   #36
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I know a guy who popped I can't even remember how many LS6 motors with the returnless fuel systems with a too extreme tune. Everytime I turned around he was swaping motors from burning out the #7 cylinder (or which ever is the last one)
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:11 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=tomiboy;920850]GM built a batwing for the non-dry sumped LS3 and scrapped the project cause it didn't work. There are a half dozen floating around. It's not the oil pan. The oil pools in the top of the head and doesn't drain back to the pan in time on high G left hand (I think it's left) corners. No one has come up with a cheap fix. [QUOTE]

Drill the lifter trays?

An oil pump with too much flow can pump the pan dry also. Melling pumps are good for this.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 View Post
The oil pools in the top of the head and doesn't drain back to the pan in time on high G left hand (I think it's left) corners.
That's what I was told by a NASCAR mechanic. He said the only real solution is dry sump with external drains from the heads.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:11 PM   #39
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So to update this thread... After three years of racing the LS1 Miata, including some very decent lap times in A6s (way under SM times), I took it to a dyno facility for some tuning and some new certification runs.

Using the same dyno (Dynojet), SAE 5% correction (same as before), the new plot, and plot from three years ago, are essentially identical. Point being, there is no degradation in power. I am still not having problems with oil pressure or fouled plugs, or any other signs of oiling issues.

All I have is the accusump and the oil cooler. I have just switched to a V8 Roadsters steel oil pan to clear my new V8 Roadsters subframe, but that just happened. All the last three years of track time was with the stock 2002 Camaro oil pan.

So, go dry sump if you think you have to. In my experience, the oil cooler and 3-qt accusump are just fine.

Now, I heard about one Accusump equipped LSx car that recently blew up a motor from oiling issues. However, the problem was not with the Accusump. The problem was with how the engine oil was refilled after an oil change. You cannot just drain the Accusump, then add new oil to fill the pan. What you HAVE to do is:
1. Fill the oil pan to the full mark.
2. Start and run the engine, increasing RPM until you hit the max pressure limit (about 62 psi for my motor @ ~3000 RPM or so). Run it like this for a minute or so. This fills the Accusump.
3. Shut off the Accusump, then shut off the engine. Shutting off the Accusump first makes sure it stays full, which is how shutdown should always happen anyway. Check the Accusump pressure gauge. It should read 62 psi (or whatever your max oil pressure is).
4. Check the dipstick, and add oil to the engine until it is full again. It should be about 3 quarts (what it took to fill the Accusump).

If you do not do it this way, and just fill the oil pan without filling the Accusump, then you start off running 3 quarts low. Clearly that is a bad idea.

I freaking LOVE LSx motors, and GM for making them. For a V8 they are relatively cheap, compact, light, durable, and make lots of power. Mine is bone stock, with shorty headers, 2.5" duals, and a custom tune (on the stock ECU), and makes 325 WHP on pump gas.

Last edited by ZX-Tex; 01-29-2014 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:53 PM   #40
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I am looking at going the LSX route here in a bit and reading the first part of this thread it seamed discouraging. So one car had a problem with the injector and another with oiling issues, is there any other reoccurring problems. Thank you ZX-Tex for encouraging the swap and that you like it so much, sorry LOVE it.
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