Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1305658)
Because you can get lower without running into spring bind with shorter springs. Longer springs have a higher block height.
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A light car will not fully compress springs. When you have a gap at full droop adding a longer spring will only raise the car because a longer spring compresses the same amount. But at full droop you will still have the gap.
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Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1305663)
A light car will not fully compress springs. When you have a gap at full droop adding a longer spring will only raise the car because a longer spring compresses the same amount. But at full droop you will still have the gap.
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Helpers are needed to take up the spring at full droop. Correct? No matter how long a 700# spring is it will always be unseated at full droop when a Miata is set at a low (4-4.5") rode height.
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Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1305666)
Helpers are needed to take up the spring at full droop. Correct? No matter how long a 700# spring is it will always be unseated at full droop when a Miata is set at a low (4-4.5") rode height.
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1 Attachment(s)
For example, I replaced the left setup with the right spring, because just like in the video, the helper stays completely crushed and serves no purpose other then being a stupid uncentered offset spacer. The front end doesn't have the same travel the rearend does, even if the shocks are physically capable of it, the suspension and swaybar will not allow it.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1454905409 |
The helper is not just a spacer, it extends when the weight is removed keeping the main spring in contact then compresses and becomes a spacer when fully loaded. A longer spring has to be adjusted lower just like a helper, only it is not compressed all the way so when the suspension goes into full droop it well not extend enough to keep the slack out if that makes sense.
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Originally Posted by jmann
(Post 1305682)
The helper is not just a spacer, it extends when the weight is removed keeping the main spring in contact then compresses and becomes a spacer when fully loaded. A longer spring has to be adjusted lower just like a helper, only it is not compressed all the way so when the suspension goes into full droop it well not extend enough to keep the slack out if that makes sense.
A helper spring that is under 100% compression at all times and can not be physically extended due to lack of suspension or shock travel vs installed height is a spacer. (and not a good one) This happens under 2 scenarios. 1: The shock perch is set in such a way that full droop keeps the main spring somewhat compressed without a helper (no void under full droop) 2: The swaybar limits free suspension travel Both apply to me, so helpers don't make sense. Suspension isn't one size fits all, kids. |
We are talking about a shock that can be extended longer then the main spring is, understood??????
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I don't think you get it.
A longer main spring will still be unseated at max droop travel, all you stand to gain is the ability to not lower the car past a certain point running a longer spring. Most miata with lowered geometry have unused droop travel, the helper spring makes up that droop travel when there is no load, like cornering and hard bumps. The helper spring will keep the tire in contact with the road. Happens a lot on my 99ae billies and 7" springs, no helpers. If I'm off the ground, I can kick my tire down a good 2.5", front and rear. No bueno for torsen. I hear it clack around, see the witness marks from springs hitting sleeves. I haven't even been to a track, yet. You could use the main spring for droop travel, but if you do that then you have to preload the spring, means you can't go low. The only way to make up the droop travel is a spring with softer rate than the main one, hence helpers. So you don't ever see the helper move on your car or track, don't mean it doesn't happen to the rest of us. |
Originally Posted by Dietcoke
(Post 1305683)
How many times do I have to explain this before it's understood.
A helper spring that is under 100% compression at all times and can not be physically extended due to lack of suspension or shock travel vs installed height is a spacer. (and not a good one) This happens under 2 scenarios. 1: The shock perch is set in such a way that full droop keeps the main spring somewhat compressed without a helper (no void under full droop) 2: The swaybar limits free suspension travel Both apply to me, so helpers don't make sense. Suspension isn't one size fits all, kids. MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Xida CS vs. FCM NAs With enough stroke, helpers become a benefit. Not enough stroke, helpers not needed. Not complicated. |
Whats the distance from the upper spring perch to the shock body on a front xida at full droop - as in the exocet video (with your xidas) the shocks have the travel, but guess what, the suspension as setup won't allow the helper to do anything but be a spacer, which just brings me back to the whole helpers arent always necessary thing, even with long stroke shocks.
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Originally Posted by Dietcoke
(Post 1305687)
Whats the distance from the upper spring perch to the shock body on a front xida at full droop - as in the exocet video (with your xidas) the shocks have the travel, but guess what, the suspension as setup won't allow the helper to do anything but be a spacer, which just brings me back to the whole helpers arent always necessary thing, even with long stroke shocks.
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Originally Posted by Arca_ex
(Post 1305689)
If the helper is compressed the entire time then buy better tires and drive faster.
Like I said, I have helpers in the rear, they just arent needed in the front, as setup. |
I see the helpers working from about 4:00 on the video last page, exocet one.
What bushings are you running? |
Rod ends.
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Well, there you go. You probably limited droop travel somehow. Are the rod ends binding in the subframe or something?
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No, I don't have xidas, my shocks probably have 3/4-1 inch less travel and I use 7 inch main springs. I'd like to upgrade next winter offseason if funds permit, they're great shocks.
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So then why the fuck are you commenting here if you don't have the problem being discussed.
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Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1305699)
So then why the fuck are you commenting here if you don't have the problem being discussed.
And I'm not. Anything else you'd like to cry about? |
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