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From 11-12V, .21ms added time
12-13V .20ms
13-14V .14ms
14-15V .10ms
15-16v .07ms
Average is 0.144ms/V. I was using. This is more than what was recommended last thread (.116ms/V) but less than what I ended up using which was 0.16ms/V
Autotune works much better using correct values, especially on low map cells I was having trouble with before. I let autotune go all the way down to my lowest map cells and it handled them beautifully. I also used nearly a sixteenth to an eighth of a tank less fuel on a 60 mile trip to Topeka and back. I've gotta remember to reset my odometer next time, I might be able to call this thing economical again
From 11-12V, .21ms added time
12-13V .20ms
13-14V .14ms
14-15V .10ms
15-16v .07ms
Average is 0.144ms/V. I was using. This is more than what was recommended last thread (.116ms/V) but less than what I ended up using which was 0.16ms/V
Autotune works much better using correct values, especially on low map cells I was having trouble with before. I let autotune go all the way down to my lowest map cells and it handled them beautifully. I also used nearly a sixteenth to an eighth of a tank less fuel on a 60 mile trip to Topeka and back. I've gotta remember to reset my odometer next time, I might be able to call this thing economical again
Nigelt, would it be possible to test these injectors deadtime at 4/5 bar? It's kinda gonna be necessary for anyone wanting more than ~220whp on e85 with these injectors.
I'm going to use the smaller of the two numbers, they're the average of the normal operating range. Gets large fast if you average in those super low voltage values....
I'm sure this is a noob question. on a 2000 do I use the 4BAR offsets and on the required fuel calculation take my actual flow numbers *1.3 with a dead time @13.2=1.261
That is what I am running since I have the 4 bar return less system. I also made the voltage correction .16 since I think my car usually runs between 13 & 14v.
Thanks for the new data Nigel, my car is running great.
I'm sure this is a noob question. on a 2000 do I use the 4BAR offsets and on the required fuel calculation take my actual flow numbers *1.3 with a dead time @13.2=1.261
[edit - misread]
It's not 1.3x to go from 3 bar to 4 bar, it's actually 1.165x
Pulled this from my build thread, but figured I should just ask here. I'm running ms2 on a DIYPNP.
Originally Posted by wackbards
I'm sorting out my map for the FF610 injectors I ordered in February. Based on the recommendations from this thread, I'm running the following:
dead time = 1.179ms@13.2v
battery correction = .144v/ms
I've multiplied my static flow published on the cards I received with the injectors by 1.04. Here are the injector serial numbers, published flow, and corrected flow
serial # published corrected
f6ak43 609cc 633.36cc
f6ak49 614cc 638.56cc
f6ak55 609cc 633.36cc
f6ak62 610cc 634.40cc
the average corrected flow is 634.92cc. I input 634cc into tunerstudio.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am going to make a correction to my dead time though. I couldn't reconcile the values Deezums posted, and those Nigelt posted. Turns out I was adding .2v x .144ms/v to go from 1.15ms@13v to 1.179ms@13.2v instead of subtracting it. I'm going to go ahead and use 1.124ms.
If I'm running these with a stock MSM fuel system, would I need to be using the 4 bar or 5 bar settings?
I've read that the MSM fuel system runs around 60psi at idle (4 bar) and 70psi differential pressure, but like anything I read on the internet, I'm suspect of it's validity.
I've just sent an injector off for linearity and latency testing at a different shop, so it will be interesting to see whether the results differ from the dead times we've been working from.
I also did some of my own testing and the results confound me. Maybe one of you can help interpret this in a useful or meaningful way? The test process was to run 1500 RPM at different pulse widths starting at 5ms and going down until nothing squirts out. Around 2ms the steps are 0.1 ms apart for a decent amount of precision. The machine was running at 12V.
If you do a regression of the linear section, it intercepts at pretty darn close to x=0, which makes no sense at all.
Wheee! Necropost!
Anyway. I have seen the updated dead times everywhere from the injectors you sent off for this test. Any chance of getting a graph of the linearity test? I am finding out the hard way these are not perfect injectors for every Miata, since I am waaaay into the non linear region trying to idle/overrun on my batch fire 1.6 doing 2 squirts per cycle. So I am hoping I can use the small pulse width feature on the MS3x to make them work.
Sorry for being so slow on the uptake @x_25 - I'm sure you've figured out a solution to your issues by now, but for the benefit of other folks who might find this thread, I've got the non-linear map up at Injector Data ? Flow Force Injectors and below for your tuning pleasure:
Awesome! I will give those a try once my motor is back in. I did get it working well enough by re-wiring to run full sequential and one squirt per rev, but some things were still a bit off. I will try these out and see how it is.
Who's up for confirming I'm not loosing my mind and picked the 'right' settings this time around (I had a mostly tuned fuel map with likely quite wrong settings...).
2004 MSM
Req Fuel 4.3 (based on 1800cc/4cyl and 700cc due to NB/4bar fueling?)
Deadtime/PWM settings
10v - 168.1
11v - 138.5
12v - 119.5
13.2v - 100
14v - 89.8
15v - 79.3
Also configured the Small Pulsewidths
Original - New
0 - 0
.080 - 0
.280 - .380
.480 - .530
.7 - .7
2 - 2
So... sanity check me... as I'd rather get this right instead of having to do another retune after this one
Best for ReqdFuel to put in the 3-bar setting. Not that it makes a lot of difference, as VE tune will come next. But, they are 640's (or whatever the report says) that happen to be running on a non-Manifold referenced system.
If you've already tuned the car, it would not be worth re-doing.
As for dead times and small pulse width's you have no choice but to use the values given by the tester.
You did not post what dead time you used, only the voltage compensation.
Last edited by DNMakinson; 05-24-2017 at 07:20 AM.
Reason: Auto-correct junk fixed.
Map retune is already in progress, good portion of the way to 'done' for it. I'm impatient
A(ms) 1.261
My next task is to figure out where my 500 rpm idle drop comes from when letting engine wind down out of gear. It'll dip and try to stall if on the brakes (a common overlap), but if I let it drop for a second or to it recovers and then steadies.
03-08-2016, 04:40 PM
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