JCarson

I have a 97 miata that I recently bought an m45 supercharger kit for. The miata runs insanely well by itself, but I wanted to add a bit of umph. Although it runs well, it does have some error codes- one with the EGR and one with the CAS. The CAS works since the car runs so well, but there is an error. I'll figure those out soon. I had a problem with overheating but have since installed a Qmax coolant reroute and a 2 row aluminum radiator, then I said bye bye to poor engine temps. I now feel ready to install the supercharger, yet I want to make sure I have everything covered. I don't have a megasquirt though I can buy one and rx7 injectors for 450. I'd prefer to do it without megasquirt if it can be done efficiently with what I have. I'll share a picture, I would say the cross over tube that's water cooled seems like a total pain in the ***, I'd prefer to use just straight air cross over tube and I'd love to rig the one I have that way if it would work. I don't have a power card, is it 100% necessary?

Joseph Conley

First off, I'm sorry for your loss.
You are not ready to install the supercharger. You need to read way more on this site before you do anything.
Nothing you have is efficient.
Get a megasquirt, preferably an MS3X and learn to tune the car. Then get flow force injectors, retune the car. DO NOT GET RX7 INJECTORS, even if they are free.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

You are not going to want to hear this but you need to purchase a wide-band oxygen sensor and a megasquirt of some sort. A power card is useless unless you want your good running car to stop running well. It was not the right tool for the job. It's like using a wrench as a hammer. Sure, you can drive nails with it but you're going to hate yourself every time you use it.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

oh boy this is gon be g00d

Schroedinger

You’re probably gonna get brutalized coming to MT.net and posting about an M45 supercharger. Been there myself.

I ran one with band-aid fuel/timing stuff for over a year with no issues. It was fun at the time. For the 5-6psi that the M45 makes, you don’t NEED Megasquirt (although it is a lot better). You have an AFPR for fuel, which is fine. Unless you get a timing controller, you’re going to have to set your base timing really conservative, which leaves a lot of power on the table. I used the Jackson Racing Boost Timing Controller, which worked well enough. You absolutely should install a wideband.

Don’t waste your time with the water/air intercooler. Just use it as a crossover pipe and don’t hook it up to anything. That kit looks janky as fuq, I bet you’re missing about a million little things that you’re going to have to track down. It’s worth trying to find a DDM Works cold air box, those things make a **** ton of heat (again robbing power).

x_25

Minimum, you need a wideband and a fuel pressure gauge.

Preferably, you want an ECU. Best thing I ever did for my 1990 was put an MS3x in it. It ran smoother, better and better fuel economy and a bit more power doing just that and a shity tune.

JCarson

I will most likely get a MSPNP2 and skip the rx7 injectors that come with them. Would it still be necessary to have the fuel pressure gauge if I get the mega squirt? While I'm resourceful with tools, I haven't done any splicing wires or electric work since I did applied engineering in high school almost a decade ago. How hard will it be to install the sensor needed for the megasquirt while deleting the MAF and how hard will the wide band installation be?


That being said, anyone that wants to be rude for me for having low power goals while still trying to keep a reliable car without changing any internals can talk all they'd like. Realistically, I would probably pass most of them with my (now stock) miata. 😘

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Nothing wrong with lower power goals.
What most here laugh at is the completely false assumption that having a very mediocre setup that produces low power because it's so old and mediocre will somehow be more reliable than a much more efficient, modern setup that makes more power. It's simply not true. You get lower power, and worse reliability, for no up-side at all.

Anyways, to answer your question: its really easy to wire in the wideband and iat. Like, 30 minutes of your time easy.

JCarson

Why is that?

JCarson

although I have already heard plenty of stories about miatas with m45 superchargers living forever (seemingly), it only makes sense that something more efficient and reliable would come out with time. While I want this set up to get me around 150 Hp, I want 170-180 Hp after is all said and done, that's of course with the upgrades required to make it happen. Is there a better or more cost efficient way to get there? I also like the idea of consistent power without spool time. Not an absolute in what I'm looking for, though, like I said- I like the idea.

The upside to this set up is cost efficiency. 750 for that kit. Clearly I need more stuff, yet I still feel like i got a good deal.

oh, thanks for all the help!

x_25

Tt takes the same stuff to do 150 or 200 on one of these cars outside of the FI system. Just go with a small turbo setup if 170-180 is your goal. That is absolutely maxing out an M45. Which I have done, it went 6k miles and then locked up (though it did require very little fiddling in there). But to hit those levels, you will need an inter-cooler or meth/water injection and other things. Also, I made a whopping 150, but had the stock header and cat and a meh road tune.

Also, that is the early m45. You can't get a smaller nose pulley, so you are going to be stuck at around 160 max, if everything is perfect and well tuned, and you get a 150mm crank overlay.

Just go with a small turbo.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

/\ what he said. that 750 will turn into 2500 to do it even somewhat decently. you'll see

x_25

I did mine for about $1500 outside of everything that can be transfered right to a turbo setup. But I got screaming deals on two kit, can do 90% of the rebuild work on the superchargers myself and did a lot of planning and scrounging to make sure as much as possible will transfer over to a turbo setup once I decide I am done playing with the supercharger stuff. But adding a header, some other intake stuff, and if I didn't find a kit with every pulley I could need and a high quality belt tensioner, I would have easilly been into 2500-3k to be where I am, just in the supercharger parts.

Since you already have the kit, my reccomendation is to get an ECU, clutch, wideband, and fuel injectors. Install those while N/A, learn to tune and how to work it all. Then slap on the supercharger setup and play with 5-6psi for a bit until you are bored (5-6 is a yawnfest now, it is where I am at the moment with the same exact early sebring kit on a 1.6 right now.). Then sell the supercharger stuff and go turbo.

With the base of the ECU, injectors, wideband, and clutch, you can do anything you want. But start with all that. It will transfer to whatever you decide to do in the future.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

You don't need the fuel pressure gauge if you get a megasquirt, to answer your question.

I might even use the RX7 injectors if they were free and had been professionally cleaned, otherwise the cost of cleaning and testing would make them undesirable. One injector underperforming can destroy an engine. They are slow injectors by modern standards and do not idle as well as newer ones. I have run some previously.

For what it's worth, you would be at the top end of the m45's efficiency at 150whp, but would have difficulty keeping a tiny turbo at only 150whp. The smallest generally used here will generate over 200whp pretty easily with used components. Just throwing it out as a data point. Superchargers consume a large portion of the power they generate by the nature of their design. Turbos are significantly more efficient for making power. That's why so many of us choose them.

Schroedinger

As a reference point, my M45 made 135-140whp with standard pulleys on my 1.6L according to VirtualDyno. It was well sorted, with EV14 injectors and a good Megasquirt tune. Intake air temps were typically more than 100 degrees over ambient.

It was worth doing, if only because it didn’t require much in the way of supporting mods (clutch, intercooling, etc.) and it helped me to learn the basics. Going beyond that power level with the M45 would be a waste of time and money for most people. x_25 was able to scrounge cheap stuff, and had a pretty good knowledge base going in.

MidTNJasonF

Putting an SC or Turbo on a factory naturally aspirated engine is not even a remotely new idea. Some of us have been doing it before some members of this forum were born and certainly before many had a drivers license. I turbocharged my first vehicle in the 80's and it was a blow thru carb setup. While it probably made twice the power of most of the builds (it had twice the cylinders after all) seen on this site but that does not mean I would do it again. Times they do change.

You will not get great responses from many here related to your original post. SC's are not looked upon favorably here by many, older Jackson Racing M45 and even some M62 based systems especially.
If you had purchased a car with the JRSC system already installed I could see working with it if you think it will meet your goals and driving habits. If you have a stock vehicle and want to add some extra umph as you stated then the m45 based systems are not really the best choice. I would not be running out looking to acquire one.

If you are not dead set on using the JRSC kit then the advise of many here to put a small turbo kit on is valid. If you think your goals may change or evolve over time then the JRSC kit is really not a good starting point. Sell the SC kit and put that toward putting together a turbo kit for it. A turbo kit does not mean you A) have to upgrade engine internals or B) make your vehicle significantly more unreliable.

If you are dead set on using the SC kit and want to do so in the best reasonable way then the suggestions to get a standalone ECU are valid. It is the the best route in pretty much every way except maybe cost. Even if the cost to buy, install, and tune a standalone seems like a large upfront or lump sum cost it is actually worth it in the long run. You will spend nearly as much piecing together multiple band-aids and trying to get it all running halfway decent on the car.

As a M45 JRSC owner on a NA8 my suggestion for your setup if you are going to move forward with the SC is strip that kit down to the basic components. SC, brackets, cross over tube, and throttle body. Sell or toss the other items. Buy the best stand alone you can afford and install it. Get the car running well naturally aspirated on the standalone. This way you establish a solid reliable base and you know all sensors, engine systems, and electrical systems are functioning as they should. Then install the core SC setup and retune. If you are going to upgrade injectors do it at this time with decent quality parts that have been cleaned and flow tested. This includes making sure your fuel system can handle the demands of larger injectors and/or higher duty cycles.

I bought my current NA8 with the JRSC despite the fact that it had an SC not because of it. It is currently running (poorly) on original 1990's era band-aids like the FPR and timing retard box. Unfortunately for me it is not possible to move to a standalone ecu. I am still going to remove the band-aids and move to a much more modern, although still slightly outdated, piggyback ecu setup. Even with that I do not plan on ever making more than 150 to 160 rwhp. Anything over 160 would just be gravy to me for this car. If I really wanted any more power I would be selling the car, finding a pre OBDII car, installing a standalone ecu, and installing a turbo kit.

Regarding gauging; other than cost I can not see why you would not want to install additional gauges like a fuel pressure gauge, wideband, or air intake temperature gauge. At worst they take a little time and effort to install while giving you some more key information about your engine. At best they can help prevent doing damage to your engine, help you diagnose problems in your system, or help you better tune your car. I find that knowledge of my oil pressure, fuel pressure, engine/coolant temperature, and air fuel ratio are the bare minimum requirements on a modified car. Again some additional costs and effort here might save you larger costs down the road.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

A+ post

k24madness

iTrader: (6)

About to pull the trigger on a 95 with M45 SC and TDR-IC. The car has MS2PNP & ID750cc injectors. It was professionally tuned and makes 170hp to the wheels. It's a hoot to drive! There is a part of me that wants to install a 99 head with upgraded cams and see what the M45 will do on E85. I bet it will come close to 225whp. That's a pretty fun combo.

I will likely just sell the M45 and install the Trackspeed turbo kit.