BRP MP62 setup
 

I just bought a used BRP MP62 hotside setup for my NB1. I am currently running a JRSC M45, it's one of the older kits which has the little black box that tricks the ECU into thinking it's cold outside to add fuel under boost (so effectively no engine management besides stock). Needless to say I have a couple of questions, and since this forum has more knowledge in this arena than others I am on (and the self-proclaimed lord of S/Cing) I figured I'd ask my questions here.

A little background on myself, I am currently on a ship in the Atlantic (not the Navy). We get our Internet connection via satellite which is slow at the best of times, moreso depending upon the weather and how many people are downloading porn. :laugh: I do try searching for things but since BRP is no longer around it's difficult at best trying to find information. I work on things for a living so can do pretty much everything, but I'm just starting in the world of electronic engine control and boost.

The kit that I bought has the 'charger, pulleys for 6 and 10 psi, and an intercooler. No engine management. I was planning on buying a DIYPnP (probably from Braineack as my time home is limited), however I received an offer from someone elsewhere of a BRP module that I am told was specifically made for this 'charger. It consists of a small black box with wiring connections coming out of it (looks like they hook into the factory harness) and a PowerCard also attached. I know that the MS based unit will be better overall, but would the BRP unit do the job as a temporary measure? I guess my main concern would be if it can handle the higher boost, intercooler and bigger injectors. I already have an Innovate MTX-L waiting at home.

I recently bought a set of Supra 305cc injectors. The guy I bought the 'charger from was running 550cc injectors with a Hydra ECU on his. Am I going to need something bigger than the 305s to run 10psi safely?

I appreciate any and all help/guidance anyone can give. It probably goes without saying that I'll ignore the turbo guys who tell me to go that route (already have that with my Speed6, I'm liking this form of boost on the Miata). Don't let that stop you from having fun though! :makeout:

Get an enhanced DIYPNP through me, get a well-tuned map for a 1.8, M62 intercooled with Supra injectors as well. You'll have it installed and be driving around in minutes. PM me for details.

I have the same BRP set up on my 2000. Currently running 6psi with stock injectors and the powercard. You mention another black box which I have to figure is some kind of timing control. The standard powercard just needs power and ground and to be cut into the injector wires so it can add fuel under boost. It's pretty low tech and wastes a lot of power that you can get back with a 'squirt or other ecu replacement.

i made more the 40hp going standalone from powercard and timing card.

Thanks for the input guys. I did some searching last night, from what I was able to find I suspect the BRP module I was offered is a Bipes ACU with the power card hooked into it. So yeah, the MS is definitely the way to go.

Any thoughts on my injector situation? Can I get away with the 305s, or should I look into something a bit bigger (I see I can use some 465s out of an RX-8, wonder if the wife would miss hers?).

At 7-8psi, the 305cc will see 92-95% duty cycle to reach 11.8 AFR. So you definitely need to upgrade if you are looking for 10psi. I also have maps for the same setup, with the RX-8 yellow 425cc injectors. These are good for up to 12-13psi.

If you want to get power then upgrade to an ECU, You will get more BHP and also better MPG.

I have got a MP62 kit installed on my 1.6 NB and with an intercooler and ECU it flies and is a joy to drive. You've made the right choice :bigtu:.

Thanks, I'm pretty excited myself. Looking forward to the 50 or so additional horsepower I should have when everything is installed.

Mine added 115 additional horsepower from the factory figure (which the car probably wasn't making)

Thats a big reason to do it properly ;)

Has anyone had any experience with the (supposed) larger outlet manifold Moss sells for this 'charger? I know larger isn't always better, they claim 10 hp additional just from this change but I am wondering if the shape might set up problems with flow.

Since there was some uncertainty about the other control setup I have been offered I'm posting pictures of it. Maybe someone who has some history with BRP will be able to tell us what it is.

Looks like an interface box to me. It looks like you plug the harness into the ECU and the car side ECU connecters into this box.
I'd bet there is nothing inside it other than wires.

Can you open it up and see what is inside? I remember a version of this had a Powercard in it.

The BRP fabricated outlet is TERRIBLE for flow. The Jackson outlet that TDR sells HAS to be good for 10hp at your power level.


And I wouldn't bother with any of that silly band aid/ black box nonsense. Buy a DIYPNP/ MSPNP from Brain/ Revanant/ DIYautotune, and you'll be MUCH happier in the long run.

It isn't mine, something that has been offered to me. If I had it it would have been opened already!

Thanks for the info on the outlet mani. I have already made up my mind to get a MS, I was just posting about the other in case someone else is looking for information and comes across this thread. There are so many performance parts (for any car) that come and go, and when you try to dig something up it can be a daunting task. If I can add to the general info pool I will.

Good community spirit.
If it is what I think it is then it would be useful for anyone wanting to add a piggy back without having to splice into their ECU wiring. Heck, I might even buy it...:laugh:

Confirmed- BRP Breakout box http://fastforwardsuperchargers.com/PNP-Module.jpg

Great find, I bow to your research skills. :bowdown: I'm still getting up to speed on which company became what in the Miata world (hell I'm still trying to come to grips with losing Rotary Engineering in the RX-7 world, and that was years ago). If you are serious about buying it I can point you in the guy's direction (he was on CR).

A member on Nutz tested before/after with the BRP/MOSS outlet.

Made zero difference.

Nah, too late I butchered my ecu wiring harness a long time ago. If I was starting over though..... ( :idea: I wouldn't go piggy back :idea: )

At the 230hp level, the Moss high flow outlet netted a MT.net poster, a reported 6 hp. The 2 dyno runs were made on the same day.

Good luck with this and let me know if you decide to sell your M45 :)

I will be selling it once I get this setup installed.

Okay, we're getting some good information here. I appreciate everyone's contribution. It seems like with the outlet manifold (as with many things) it will come down to personal preference. I'll see how it performs for me with the BRP mani before making a decision on this. Unless someone has the means and desire to do some instrumented testing for us all...;)

While we have the ball rolling, what are some thoughts on exhaust? Currently I have an '01+ factory header, factory midpipe and Brainstorm dual axleback. I have read differing opinions on a 4-2-1 header with a supercharger (which seems to be the only thing that will fit with a hotside), and on midpipes as well. I am leaning towards keeping the header I have and adding a 2.5" midpipe arrangement. The muffler is staying as I like the sound.

1.) If anybody is interested, I have an old BRP MP62 kit for a 1.8 that will be for sale as soon as it quits raining long enough to take a few pictures of it.

2.) Endyn always pushed big tube, short runner 4-1 headers with their high hp Honda SC kits. I'm switching to a cold side kit, so I grabbed a Boig 4-1 from a local guy. I'm going to replace the straight 2.25" collector with a 7deg 2.25-3" divergent nozzle, and a full 3" exhaust. A pulleyed up blower will handle all the low end you could want, so you really just need to worry about getting the exhaust gas OUT. Low end scavenging should take a back seat to top end.

In for idle results on MS!

As was already stated, that black box looks like my old BRP PNP module (paperweight).

The 'charger showed up at the house today, too bad I'm about 6,000 miles away.

I'm planning on getting some RX-8 injectors (if I can find a good used set for a reasonable price), that should give me what I need on the fuel side. Waiting on Reverant's GB for the enhanced MS. That should set me up pretty well for when I do get home, I will just have to get a set of COPs to complete everything I want to have.

When you get that bracket re-welded, look into some temporary piping for a crossover tube between the charger and the intake manifold, like stock configuration. It'll help you with your initial understanding of idle with an SC, setting up your tuning, and how the IC will impact it later on. The IC install is sort of a PITA compared to the SC install.

There were never any instructions for the IC install, but I have a bunch of old pics. Let me know if you want any.

Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on that. The guy I bought it from took pictures and did a write-up when he removed it, and I was able to find a set of old installation instructions from BRP. I don't think the mechanical aspect is going to be much different from my M45, I've already had it off to replace the coupler and oil.

Okay time for an injector question. I need to figure out what size I want to get so I can tell Reverant the size for his MS. From my research and your guidance to date, a set of 440cc (approximately) units will be sufficient for my needs of 200 whp at 10 psi. Note that my car already has an upgraded fuel pump in place (from what I can find out it's the Walbro 255 sold by Jackson Racing, I am going to get in touch with the original owner to see if he remembers anything specific about it such as does it have the restrictor pill to increase discharge pressure). Also from what I have gathered, a set of larger EV14 type injectors will handle idling just fine. That being the case and since I have to get some anyway, I am thinking about going with a set of 550cc injectors. My question is, do injectors care which part of their duty cycle they are operating in or not? I know most mechanical parts have a sweet spot that they work best in, and given my car will be spending the majority of its time just driving around I can't see having a part that isn't happy, if you get my drift.

Finally made it home. Checked out my 'charger kit, looks very nice. Since I now have access to Internet that doesn't fall on its face, I did a little research and decided to go ahead with the EV14 550cc injectors. I've been ordering other bits and pieces today so that I'm ready once Reverant starts sending out the enhanced MS units. I won't post more here until I get things up and running with the bigger unit.

Well it took a while but I finally got all the bits and pieces. Started installing everything this past Monday. Few hiccups with the install (missing fasteners etc) and I decided to go ahead and replace a few things while the car was down (carpet and wiring harness that was hacked up for the M45 install, both of which required removal of the dash). The guy I bought the MP62 from didn't send me any info and as I got into things I found out the old instructions I found online weren't the best for what I have. In any event, I have the 'charger installed but the autotensioner is hitting the power steering adjuster nut. The PO had it on his car with PS so I'm waiting to see if he has any pictures showing his setup so I can see what I need to do. Also, the intercooler is in place but I don't know how the setback brackets for the factory radiator brackets go on. I could throw them on but there are side plates and other bits that need to go on, and with the tight quarters in there I really only want to do this once. Was trying to have it done to drive to Mid-Ohio for the race this weekend but that won't happen.

If you have a pic of your setup, post it. The Power Steering on my kit have a few pillow blocks to replace, but there's a metal "tongue" with a bolt sticking up. In the BRP kits, you just take some channel lock pliers and bend it up out of the way.

It's better that you didn't rush the install, it needs a little shakedown after it's complete.

When installing the main supercharger bracket, there's one bolt that connects the front of the bracket, just above the 1st runner. It takes a bit of patience, but it's important to get that nut/bolt tightened just right at the right length, else you can get a nasty vibration/buzz around the 3k-3500 rpm area.

Once installed, I'd also have someone give the throttle a couple of tests and you can make sure the belt's tracking properly. Last thing you want is for the belt to jump a rib at the track. Once it's all lined up, you're pretty much good to go.

I've waited this long to get it in, a little longer won't kill me! I don't rush things as I know it always ends up biting someone somewhere.

Are you talking about the bolt that was used to hold on the engine lift bracket? In the instructions I found it says to back that out until it contacts the backside of the 'charger bracket, that's what I've done.

I greatly appreciate your input, hopefully in the future someone will find this and have their questions answered.

It's taken a little longer than I had planned due to having a bunch of little things I had to source. As of now I have all the engine bay hardware installed, Spal fans and IAT are connected. I will install the undertray and front bumper tonight, then all I have left is wiring the gauges and installing/setting up the MS. No one local had a DB9-USB adapter so I had to order it, won't be here until Monday.

No Radio Shack near you? They carry a Gigaware one that is stupid expensive, but it works out of the box with Windows 7 without the need for 20 minutes of Google searches.

Looks good man, bet it'll be a bunch of fun!

RS was the first place I looked. I got the connectors for the Spals and gauges there.

Thanks, I'm sure it will be. Going to be hard not to romp on it before I get the fuel tuned up though.

Got home from vacation yesterday, the adapter cable and air filter I ordered were here. Put the last few bits on today, got the MS set up and fired her up. She started, no leaks or loose bits anywhere (phew!). The supercharger belt did come off, I tried making some adjustments but it kept coming off. I don't think it was previously run correctly as the belt that came with the kit was missing one rib compared to the new one. I'll have to pull some bits off tomorrow and try to get things lined up better. My boost gauge isn't working either, I have an idea about that which I'll try tomorrow.

Well no luck with my adjustments. In order to align both pulleys the 'charger has to be pushed all the way back in its range, and the belt moved off two ribs towards the front when I ran the engine. I'm getting the feeling there is some sort of vertical misalignment but no way to adjust for that. Anyone have any ideas for me?

You have a bracket flipped?

That was one of the first things I checked. After I took a look I thought maybe the rear one was, but when I compared it to the installation instructions I have it was in correctly.

Messed with it today, double-checked the brackets (installed correctly). Ended up shimming between the front supercharge brackets and the main plate with one washer under each bolt. That helped, I loosened the bolts up and moved the 'charger out until it looked parallel to the crank pulley to see how much more I needed to shim. I'll pull it all back apart after dinner and put two additional washers under each bolt to see what that nets me.

Rather than eyeball it, are you using something like a straight-edge across the face of the crank pulley to confirm that its all square? I know this seems rudimentary but I couldn't help but ask.

Get some pics up of what you are dealing with and maybe someone will recognize the issue and have some tips for ya.

I understand your comment, you don't know me or my abilities. Yes I have used a straightedge across the pulleys. Last time I checked it they were fine, however the belt still jumped when I ran the car. A comment from another forum about this reminded me there are three axes for alignment, if one is out then there will be problems. Unfortunately there is a limited amount of space to check measurements with the radiator and fans pushed back because of the intercooler, so a calibrated eyeball should get me close enough to see if I am headed in the right direction or not. I don't think pictures will show what I am seeing clearly enough. Right now what I think the issue is are the pulleys are like this: [crankshaft /supercharger pulley. Shimming the forward bracket out should bring the supercharger pulley square with the crankshaft pulley.

I had the same problem on my JRSC M45. I ended up using two washers in between the forward most bracket and the head and it fixed it. Getting the teeth lined up is the easy part, it's getting the twist angle just right that is most difficult. A reasonably calibrated eyeball should get you close enough to where the belt will stay on, but maybe not track straight, and you can adjust from there.

I've seen some problems on the 6-rib auto tensioner set ups where the wrong crank pulley was used. Some require a spacer behind the pulley, others not. If your set up is a *not* but a spacer was used then your crank pulley is too far forward.

Thanks for your input. Mine doesn't require a spacer and doesn't have one, so that is fine.

I messed with it earlier today (after running yet more errands with the boss). The three shimming washers helped a lot, I checked pulley alignment and was able to get it spot-on. However when I ran the car the belt still moved off one rib and I was hearing some unusual noises that sounded like they were coming from the nose of the supercharger. I tried making more adjustments but there was no change. Came inside to cool off, took an afternoon nap (I was thinking about things, honest!). Went back out a little bit ago and checked the horizontal plane of both pulleys with my small level. The supercharger appeared to be more level than the crank pulley (remember, the engine is slightly higher in the front) so I removed the two rear bolts and pushed down on the rear of the 'charger. This time when I started it the belt immediately jumped completely off. So, I put the bolts back in again and put the belt back on. Started the car to see how it was, and the belt stayed on and in place! I did start using the belt the guy sent me with the kit which shouldn't have an impact because it's the same as the new one I bought (just has some usage on it). I revved the engine and it was making happy noises and the belt stayed where it was. Hooray!!!! There is a part of me that is annoyed because I don't know specifically what fixed the problem.

Your pulley was off in the vertical plane. Pushing down the back made the belt jump off, and you happened to get it right when you put the bolts back in.

In other words, it was the front to back tilt of the SC that was off.

It was initially off in two planes. I have a lot of years working on ships and have aligned countless pieces of machinery (motors to compressors, pumps etc) so am familiar with what is involved in getting two pieces to play well together.

No worries, was not trying to offend. We deal with a lot of levels of tech experience around here, hence the "couldn't help but ask" part of my comment.

I *almost* bought a used BRP MP62 kit + megasquirt a couple years back. Drove to San Jose to get it and the dude sold it out from under me the day before and didn't bother to cancel my pickup :crx: The buyer still runs it at our local autoX IIRC. I can snap some pics next time I'm out there if that might help?

Here's to hoping you find your answers. :beer:

Looks good, with one caveat: IAT location.

After much deliberation I moved my IAT to the other end of the same intake pipe, about 2" above where the pipe comes out of the IC. That way, you still get accurate readings, but eliminate heatsoaking issues, and the resulting starting blues.
Rising engine heat does not take the IAT hostage if it is located in front of the radiator.

About your alignment issues:

Do you happen to have a spacer between the crank pulley and the big SC pulley?
I have an aluminum spacer (about 6mm or so) between those two pulleys.
Also, what size pulleys are you running?

Thanks for the input guys. I was able to get it lined up finally and it's running, however I now am having issues with it overheating (I posted about this separately on here, the CEL is flashing). It looks like I'll be replacing the thermostat as my radiator is fairly new and the water pump shows no signs of leakage. I'm in London for the next few days for work so that has to wait.

GC, I was not given a spacer for the crank and overlay pulleys, the PO said it didn't have one on his (and he also has a 2000 MY). I do have a space between the crank and overlay pulleys, at some point I'm going to order a replacement overlay from TDR. Right now I'm running a 130mm overlay and (IIRC) 67.5mm nose pulley.

I was out driving on Saturday when I heard an odd noise. Pulled over and checked under the hood to find the crank overlay pulley wobbling. Shut her down and got a tow home. When I removed the pulley yesterday I found that three of the four bolts had sheared. Got in touch with Track Dog Racing today and talked to Gary, he had a spacer on hand so that is now on its way. I have to remove the accessory belts so I can get the stock pulleys off the crank and try to remove the stubs of the bolts that are in there. Then it's just a matter of waiting for the spacer to show up.

For anyone who might find this through a search, apparently Mazda used two different types of crank pulleys on '99-01 cars (according to Gary). The ones that are brown in color are cast and are thicker. The ones that are black are steel and require a spacer for use with the BRP kits. BRP did include the spacer with their kits, but the person I bought mine from apparently had the cast pulley and the original installer of his kit didn't have to use it. I will be getting a new set of 8.8 fasteners (M6 X 35mm) to use and will use LocTite blue when I put the bolts in.

Oh christ, really? I had no idea there was a difference in the NB1 pulleys. By thicker, I'm guessing you are talking about the mounting flange only. I would imagine this would not affect other accessory mounting (re: alternator/AC condenser/Rotrex) correct? Thus not affecting people who are NOT using an overlay...

I'm not sure exactly where the difference in thickness is, I believe it's in the center of the pulley since that's where the spacer goes. I'll see if I can get some clear pictures of mine when I have all the pieces. Any accessory driven off the stock pulley won't be affected as far as I know.

This was mentioned in the BRP instructions I found on line and I noted it when I was doing my installation, but the PO said there wasn't one on his car. Since it was also a 2000 MY I thought I was ok. I was under the (mistaken) impression that the different pulleys had a defined cutoff across a model year, but from what Gary told me that isn't the case.

Believe or not, it's the colour that distinguishes. IIRC Brown ones don't need a spacer.

It's taken me a little longer than I had planned but here are pictures of the pulley setup with the spacer. In the hub you can see two of the three bolts that snapped off. The picture of all components shows the order the pieces go together in. Since I've gotten and installed the spacer the car has been running well with no further problems. This includes an autocross event. Now I just have to get a clutch kit next time home, as if I am not careful the stocker slips.

Found a picture of the other type of crank pulley put on the early NBs. If you compare it to the picture of my steel pulley from the previous post, you can see the cast one has a sort of built in spacer. I am fairly certain the PO of my kit had one of this type on his car which is why he didn't have the spacer.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1357422925

Wanted to add a little bit of information for others. I am in the process of installing a lot of upgrades. One of those was a set of the AWR sway bar brackets. Unfortunately with the relocation of the radiator for the intercooler, the lower radiator brackets are fouled by the AWR brackets. I can see how to correct the problem, but I don't have the parts readily available at present. For now I just put the stock brackets back on.

I had to shim my MP62 with a few washers when I upgraded to the 6 rib belt. Wasn't too bad though.

^^ same here. on my 97 I had to use washers as well. worked perfectly afterwards.