Final advise on supercharger
 

Hi all:

I am looking for a little feedback on the two options that I am considering for my '02 Miata, manual, with AC and PS. I apologize in advance for living in california and wanting something CARB approved-- R&R is not an option that I am considering.

Intended driving is street, with very rare track or AX, possibly weekend mountain twisties. I think the torque is more important than the ultimate HP for my use.

I have promised my wife not to have the mods visible, so I want low key appearance, and hope for seamless drivability.
My gauging will probably be A/F and boost only-- zeitronics data acqu, with an A/F alarm is all I have planned. Other values I would pull from a PC. I also just bought a Koyo 55mm radiator and 1.3 bar cap.

Option 1) FFS coldside
Pretty much the stock unit: $4000
I really like all the indications of superior support, and I like the belt auto tensioner and 6 rib belt, but I am a tad leery of the e-cool. I have never seen any actual accounts of e-cool problems though.


Option 2) Moss hotside $3000
Would adopt the TDR heat shield and TDR belt tensioner. I like the simplicity of this install, but am a bit haunted by rare accounts of idle drop on forums. From what I can glean, idle drop seems to have been resolved by PC Pro and IAC relocation, but still...
Intercooling is definitely not a CARB option, but the non-IC kit appears to meet my needs.

Any feedback you can give would be greatly appreciated. I think I searched diligently, but if I missed a thread discussing this, please point me to it. If anyone can confirm the idle drop is nonexistent on the Moss kit, I will most go with that. Also, other recommendations (motor mounts, other hardware) would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I have a hotside w/IC and pc pros. Idle droop is excessive, (and even non-ic cars have lots of hunting/droop), but I don't daily mine, just track and ax so no big deal. It would suck for dd. FFS would likely be ok for daily, but implode on track w/o water injection (just years of forum reading experinece). Your concerns about e-cool are valid.

I would recommend the Rotrex from 949, but I'm not sure if their NB kit has carb yet. If it does, then that's the way to go. So given your options/usage:

1. Rotrex/949
2. FFS
3. Moss

Advice

You want the best option for your needs?

Rotrex

/thread

Thanks, all, for your feedback.

Sounds like the strong concensus is wait for rotrex carb approval. Bummer, but I guess it won't hurt to wait a bit-- I can start on the other bits and pieces like the radiator and engine mounts.

Sixace-- what year and vendor is your MP62 from? (Moss?) I do not plan to intercool if I go MP62, and I understand the IC adds to the idling problems. Di d you ever run your system without intercooling?

What about JRSC M45-- same issues, or better than MP62's?

Thanks again! This is great input, even if it is not what I hoped to hear.

Thanks, all, for your feedback.

Sounds like the strong concensus is wait for rotrex carb approval. Bummer, but I guess it won't hurt to wait a bit-- I can start on the other bits and pieces like the radiator and engine mounts.

Sixace-- what year and vendor is your MP62 from? (Moss?) I do not plan to intercool if I go MP62, and I understand the IC adds to the idling problems. Di d you ever run your system without intercooling?

What about JRSC M45-- same issues, or better than MP62's?

Thanks again! This is great input, even if it is not what I hoped to hear.

The m45 is too small of a blower. The only way I would really recommend one is if you can get a cheap used one then sell it later when you upgrade. They seem to hold their used value so you wouldn't loose too much.

great idea! Might keep me until the rotrex clears.
I wish there was a carb'd turbo available for my year...

MP62 and dual throttle bodies will fix the idle issues permanently with or without an intercooler.

Forgive my ignorance-- this is different than the dummy TB and the moved original? I'll have to search to see how this works-- and whether it would go undetected at smog.

Thanks again!

FFS best 'charger kit in production -- BAR NONE! & Carb approved!

Mine was a collection of parts specifically selected and sourced by TDR. It's 2 years old. Big throttle body, 6 rib, Tensioner, etc, similar to a Stage One setup.

It's been a/a from day one, however Have ridden and driven non-ic and the droop is there, but less than mine.

Not much experience with the 45 other than a seen few who run them. Mostly street, and they are not enough hp to keep up on the track.

Dual TB may be a viable option to settle the droop on the 62, however there is no kit I'm aware of. You'll need to fab it up, and from your op that was not desirable.

Again. Contact 949 if you have not already done so. If carb is coming, then upgrading the other systems (suspension,cooling,brakes,diff,etc) while you wait is no problem, and actually the best plan. Those should be first, then add power..lots of guys seem to go for power and then flail around on crappy suspension,brakes, wheels/tires and deal with overheating issues, even on the street.

Boost is addicting. Unless you keep it on the street only, you will want more power. Each SC system has limits on the upper end, so pick carefully.

If I were to do it over, I would do rotrex. But the carb is not an issue for me and for you it may take years, if ever.

fun02se-
I agree that seems like the best of the current options. I do like the hardware and have talked to tom before, nice guy. Have you tuned past the stock FFS?-- looks like it from your stats. Do you have any direct experience with A/F ratios and knocking on the stock FFS?

sixace-
Thanks very much for the detailed and informed response. I do really like what I have read about the rotrex, but unfortunately I've been waiting for it for over a year. "if ever" is right! The dual TB is an interesting looking project-- but I realize that also gets me out of strict CARB approval, most likely.

One more idea to throw out-- if the main concern with FFS is potential knocking due to e-cool fouling, would a turboXS knocklite compensate adequately? Since I don't race, if I get knock, I can/would let off the gas. If I alarm the A/F range strictly in the "normal" range for FFS, wouldn't this also be adequate feedback to avoid any kind of damage?
I definitely do not intend to upgrade any FFS components for bigger numbers.

Thanks again, invaluable input on a pretty costly decision.

I will advise you on some final advice: learn how to speak english.

Grate, vry yousfle.

Having just installed a Rotrex this last weekend I would suggest going that route. I was a fun day. Spent most of it talking with Oscar rather than working and still had it done with out a problem. if you have any questions Oscar is very willing to spend the time.

have a great day,
jared

So what are your impressions with the rotrex?

So far I like it. I just put a new clutch in the car so I am taking it easy on it for a bit. I am also going to be adding an intercooler next sunday and back on the dyno. it goes. I had some issues because the radiator ducting was not properly in place since I just got my car up and running on saturday and installed the Rotrex on sunday. I will be building my car to run in TTD with NASA so I am not going to have tones of power.

Have a great day,
Jared

Thanks for the feedback. It looks like a great system. Just need California to get reasonable now...

Where in California are you?

Have a great day,
Jared

Just came up on the local board. Thought you might be interested. I have no idea about the seller though..could be a good deal esp. since that's his "asking" price. Guy has a seperate posting selling a car. May be worth a call.

http://www.dfwmiata.com/showthread.p...ercharger-2000

San Jose area. Lived in W LA back when I was in school-- Santa Monica is a nice area. Hmm- is Ray's Diner still there? Good spot back in the late 80's!

Anybody have experience with Knocklite, good or bad?

b

Barrbm so have you figured out which one to go with? I too have a NB2 and building for rotrex....

btw i am in South SF area~locals here~

sixace-- thanks for the heads up!

I would wait for the rotrex or do a dual TB hotside. It is what it sounds since I saw you ask. You have 2 tb's 1 post and 1 pre charger and that helps the idle situation. There are millions of threads on m.net about it. Plus the hotside allows for proper intercooling to cool all that hot nasty air a roots blower makes. The ecool garbage and cold side FFS doesn't. Rotrex is the winner, simple, efficient, and able to take you where you want to go.

Do they pay you people to say things like this?



My vote would be rotrex as well.

They get free reach arounds.

aballoonflies--
are you in BAMD? If so, maybe I'll meet you some day at a drive or tech day.
Good group of Bay Area Miata Drivers.

No decision-- mulling over...

intercooler
 

I would like to see an intercooler installation that works around the rotrex oil cooler. Pics please.

In a few weeks I will have an intercooler installed. Spent more time with Oscar this weeke. nd to dyno my car and got 166hp and 149lbs of torque. I had a knock issue that was solved by going with a colder plug. I had the original ngk 5's in there. I also have a issue with one cylinder being slightly lean most likely due to a dirty injector. I am going to send the extra set I have out to be cleaned and install them before I go back to him in a few weeks for the intercooler. Then comes higher boost to around 10psi and easily 200+hp.

Have a geat day,
Jared

Jf
 

Jfornachon I have the KW! base kit for a few months. I would be curious how Oscar will configure the intercooler. Will it be over the radiator or around the radiator. There doesn't seem to be enough room to have the oil cooler stacked with the intercooler. Do you know how Oscar plans to set it up? Will he reprogram the SmartCard for higher boost (more fuel)? Will he remove the restrictor or put a different size one in? I though the restrictor lowers the boost therefore flatter/earlier torque (a good thing). Will the IAT sensor be moved closer to the throttle body? Thanks in advance if you can share anything.

Madmiata what year car do you have?

As far as I know the box is is setup so at higher boost levals it will still work up to I think 8lbs. Dont quote me on that but thats how I took it from what he said.

As far as the intercooler it will hang off a bracket in front of the A/C condensor. I don't have PS or A/C any longer since the accident. So my oil cooler is just mounted to the front of the radiator. The tubes will be going down and around the radiator.

On thease kits all you have to do is enlarge the hole in the restrictor and you will gain boost. Please don't do this if you don't have proper engine management or you may blow your engine. The Iat is not threaded in to the intake so it has to stay right where it is unless you weld a bung in to the piping. Then you will have to wire in a new sensor. That will be up to you. I can't even confirm that that will work. That again is up to you.

That is all I klnow at this time.

Have a great day,
Jared

Jf
 

Jfornachon Mine is a 2002 with PS/AC. I am most interested to see Oscar's IC setup. They have promised a IC system for a long time and I can't see how all can be stacked (with AC/PS). Once you get the IC, what will you do about the restrictor? (different engine management?). It doesn't seem just an IC is going to boost you to 8psi.

I wasn't...but now I am after you mentioned it. ;)

Jared is the engine stock? How will you manage to keep power level below the cracking point, by putting another insert?

Thanks!
Ken

Jfornachon, when you get your car sorted. I'd like to swing buy and check out your car, and get a ride, if that's ok with you. I'm building my car with the Rotrex in mind, and would love to see an intercooled setup in person.

All boost is controlled with the restrictor. The intercooler just allows you to run more boost till you run out of injector.

Have a great day,
Jared

Sure you can come check it out. You can also come join me at any NASA or speedtrial USA event. I will be at all events. How ever NASA takes priority. I have no problem doing ride alongs as long as its not in my TT class.

Have a great day,
Jared

Ken,

My engine is stock and is my DD so I am not looking to have a ton of power. Just a little more than stock. I will have two restrictors. One for the street I am thinking about 10lbs at about 200ish. The second will be for the track and set for a specific power leval. Most likely about 180ish. i do have another egine that I am planning on either selling or just over building so that I will have a stout engine and never get close to its breaking point.

Have a gerat day,
Jared

Jared,
Wish I have two engines.....
Do KW customize inserts for each user? What's the power going to be if you remove the restrictors at current set up? With different restrictors, I assume you will run two set of tunning?

Thanks!
Ken

I was down at KW a few months back and got a ride from Oscar Jr on a NA intercoolered kit...awesome awesome awesome

I had to hit a boulder on topanga canyon and destroy the oil pan to get my second engine. Not something that I would want to do again.

With the SC that I have it can flow enough air to put out 300hp. I still have no clue what engine you have. Put it in you signature as well as your location. That way people dont have to keep asking. Again my understanding is that the box will adjust for boost levels. So if I am running an 8lb restrictor it will run fine and if i put the 5lb restrictor it will adjust for that boost.

Have a great day,
jared

P.S. you can buy my spare engine but you will have to rebuild it.

Jared,
sorry to confuse you with no info. Signature added :)
I have a MS2 DIYPNP built by Dimitris. That's why I asked if you need two tunes.

you seem bias...

FFS kit
 

Happy FFS customer here. Works as advertised and great customer service.

Not being paid to say so:giggle:

Ban.

For what?

I've riden in the original mp62 coldside miata (before FFS ran with the idea), an IRTB miata was more fun on the street :jerkit:


I've had a FMII kit and a Fujiracing IRTB kit before, please search thru my 800+ posts to see if I said how great they were every other fucking thread. Thats all am saying, FFS customers seem to advertise the kit every other thread. But I guess I'd be proud of it too with the sticker price.

FM talked my thru my install on the FMII kit over the phone, early in the morning til late at night.

Jimmy at Fuji sent me some needed parts at a good price, gave me a FREE shirt, and answered any questions I had about the install.

Because I said those things, everyone should go buy both kits.....

I also bought both kits used, FM and Fuji both knew that...... now thats customer service.


Just saying

Boy Flier, why the hostility?
The original poster was asking specifically about the FFS kit. I know better than give my endorsement to a particular vendor if not being prompted to do so. I have the FFS forum to sing their praises without being asked:)

The original poster wanted info and I was answering him.

I own a BEGI TC car, a FFS CS car, a FM turbo car, and have owned 2 cars equipped with a JRSC and one with a BRP hotside kit in the past. I would gladly give my opinion of those kits when and if someone asks.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...correct?

Well, I'm not going to e-thug you.... your not the only one.

Thanks Flier!

I want to remain here....I bought a megasquirt and I know I might need a question or two answered!