barrbm

Hi all:

I am looking for a little feedback on the two options that I am considering for my '02 Miata, manual, with AC and PS. I apologize in advance for living in california and wanting something CARB approved-- R&R is not an option that I am considering.

Intended driving is street, with very rare track or AX, possibly weekend mountain twisties. I think the torque is more important than the ultimate HP for my use.

I have promised my wife not to have the mods visible, so I want low key appearance, and hope for seamless drivability.
My gauging will probably be A/F and boost only-- zeitronics data acqu, with an A/F alarm is all I have planned. Other values I would pull from a PC. I also just bought a Koyo 55mm radiator and 1.3 bar cap.

Option 1) FFS coldside
Pretty much the stock unit: $4000
I really like all the indications of superior support, and I like the belt auto tensioner and 6 rib belt, but I am a tad leery of the e-cool. I have never seen any actual accounts of e-cool problems though.


Option 2) Moss hotside $3000
Would adopt the TDR heat shield and TDR belt tensioner. I like the simplicity of this install, but am a bit haunted by rare accounts of idle drop on forums. From what I can glean, idle drop seems to have been resolved by PC Pro and IAC relocation, but still...
Intercooling is definitely not a CARB option, but the non-IC kit appears to meet my needs.

Any feedback you can give would be greatly appreciated. I think I searched diligently, but if I missed a thread discussing this, please point me to it. If anyone can confirm the idle drop is nonexistent on the Moss kit, I will most go with that. Also, other recommendations (motor mounts, other hardware) would be appreciated.

Thanks!

sixace

I have a hotside w/IC and pc pros. Idle droop is excessive, (and even non-ic cars have lots of hunting/droop), but I don't daily mine, just track and ax so no big deal. It would suck for dd. FFS would likely be ok for daily, but implode on track w/o water injection (just years of forum reading experinece). Your concerns about e-cool are valid.

I would recommend the Rotrex from 949, but I'm not sure if their NB kit has carb yet. If it does, then that's the way to go. So given your options/usage:

1. Rotrex/949
2. FFS
3. Moss

hustler

iTrader: (6)

Advice

18psi

iTrader: (76)

You want the best option for your needs?

Rotrex

/thread

barrbm

Thanks, all, for your feedback.

Sounds like the strong concensus is wait for rotrex carb approval. Bummer, but I guess it won't hurt to wait a bit-- I can start on the other bits and pieces like the radiator and engine mounts.

Sixace-- what year and vendor is your MP62 from? (Moss?) I do not plan to intercool if I go MP62, and I understand the IC adds to the idling problems. Di d you ever run your system without intercooling?

What about JRSC M45-- same issues, or better than MP62's?

Thanks again! This is great input, even if it is not what I hoped to hear.

barrbm

Thanks, all, for your feedback.

Sounds like the strong concensus is wait for rotrex carb approval. Bummer, but I guess it won't hurt to wait a bit-- I can start on the other bits and pieces like the radiator and engine mounts.

Sixace-- what year and vendor is your MP62 from? (Moss?) I do not plan to intercool if I go MP62, and I understand the IC adds to the idling problems. Di d you ever run your system without intercooling?

What about JRSC M45-- same issues, or better than MP62's?

Thanks again! This is great input, even if it is not what I hoped to hear.

cjsafski

iTrader: (2)

The m45 is too small of a blower. The only way I would really recommend one is if you can get a cheap used one then sell it later when you upgrade. They seem to hold their used value so you wouldn't loose too much.

barrbm

great idea! Might keep me until the rotrex clears.
I wish there was a carb'd turbo available for my year...

BarbyCar

iTrader: (1)

MP62 and dual throttle bodies will fix the idle issues permanently with or without an intercooler.

barrbm

Forgive my ignorance-- this is different than the dummy TB and the moved original? I'll have to search to see how this works-- and whether it would go undetected at smog.

Thanks again!

fun02se

FFS best 'charger kit in production -- BAR NONE! & Carb approved!

sixace

Mine was a collection of parts specifically selected and sourced by TDR. It's 2 years old. Big throttle body, 6 rib, Tensioner, etc, similar to a Stage One setup.

It's been a/a from day one, however Have ridden and driven non-ic and the droop is there, but less than mine.

Not much experience with the 45 other than a seen few who run them. Mostly street, and they are not enough hp to keep up on the track.

Dual TB may be a viable option to settle the droop on the 62, however there is no kit I'm aware of. You'll need to fab it up, and from your op that was not desirable.

Again. Contact 949 if you have not already done so. If carb is coming, then upgrading the other systems (suspension,cooling,brakes,diff,etc) while you wait is no problem, and actually the best plan. Those should be first, then add power..lots of guys seem to go for power and then flail around on crappy suspension,brakes, wheels/tires and deal with overheating issues, even on the street.

Boost is addicting. Unless you keep it on the street only, you will want more power. Each SC system has limits on the upper end, so pick carefully.

If I were to do it over, I would do rotrex. But the carb is not an issue for me and for you it may take years, if ever.

barrbm

fun02se-
I agree that seems like the best of the current options. I do like the hardware and have talked to tom before, nice guy. Have you tuned past the stock FFS?-- looks like it from your stats. Do you have any direct experience with A/F ratios and knocking on the stock FFS?

sixace-
Thanks very much for the detailed and informed response. I do really like what I have read about the rotrex, but unfortunately I've been waiting for it for over a year. "if ever" is right! The dual TB is an interesting looking project-- but I realize that also gets me out of strict CARB approval, most likely.

One more idea to throw out-- if the main concern with FFS is potential knocking due to e-cool fouling, would a turboXS knocklite compensate adequately? Since I don't race, if I get knock, I can/would let off the gas. If I alarm the A/F range strictly in the "normal" range for FFS, wouldn't this also be adequate feedback to avoid any kind of damage?
I definitely do not intend to upgrade any FFS components for bigger numbers.

Thanks again, invaluable input on a pretty costly decision.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

I will advise you on some final advice: learn how to speak english.

barrbm

Grate, vry yousfle.

Jfornachon

iTrader: (23)

Having just installed a Rotrex this last weekend I would suggest going that route. I was a fun day. Spent most of it talking with Oscar rather than working and still had it done with out a problem. if you have any questions Oscar is very willing to spend the time.

have a great day,
jared

18psi

iTrader: (76)

So what are your impressions with the rotrex?

Jfornachon

iTrader: (23)

So far I like it. I just put a new clutch in the car so I am taking it easy on it for a bit. I am also going to be adding an intercooler next sunday and back on the dyno. it goes. I had some issues because the radiator ducting was not properly in place since I just got my car up and running on saturday and installed the Rotrex on sunday. I will be building my car to run in TTD with NASA so I am not going to have tones of power.

Have a great day,
Jared

barrbm

Thanks for the feedback. It looks like a great system. Just need California to get reasonable now...

Jfornachon

iTrader: (23)

Where in California are you?

Have a great day,
Jared