How Much HP Can I Expect 1.6-M45 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Supercharger Discussion For all you misguided souls.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-19-2010, 10:06 AM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Total Cats: 0
Default How Much HP Can I Expect 1.6-M45

My 93 is primarily my track (HPDE) car.
Has JR M45 with boost kit
Stock injectors
Water Injection
TDR CAI
Crank pulley overlay that came with the JR Boost Kit

Had it dynoed about 2 years ago. 2 runs both at 139hp.
My 1st question is, is this typical power for my set up?

A buddy is installing TDR air/air intercooler and an oil cooler this week.
I am also considering a smaller SC pulley.

Does this make sense in my effort to maximize the power out of this set up. If the pulley will help, what size pulley should I get. Is there anything else I should be looking at, maybe bigger injectors?
Thanks.
mwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 10:54 AM   #2
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,040
Total Cats: 407
Default

mwest, you're going to want to put on your thick skin. even though this may be a legitimate question/post, it's functionally equivalent to trolling as far as the readers of this site are concerned.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 10:58 AM   #3
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

I don't know....sounds about right to me.

LOL @ 139whp.


I should shut up since you actually use your car on the track. If you think you're down on power then spend some time tuning. Regardless of what someone tells you is about right or not...if you are hitting the proper AFR targets and timing is advanced but a few degrees short of detonation then you've got the best easy street tune you can put on it.

Besides that hit a steady state dyno and actually find MBT.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 11:44 AM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,382
Total Cats: 43
Default

No bandaids? No fuel or spark modification at all??

Haven't seen many dyno sheets from 1.6 M45s but that sounds about right. Found a dyno plot on FM's website about a 1.6M45 upgraded to one of their turbo setups, has about the same power:

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...odooII_1.6.pdf
elesjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 11:55 AM   #5
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,207
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

I'd say ditch that wimpy lil whinebox and get a turbo like a man
but I'm sure you already know that being on miataTURBO.net
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:24 PM   #6
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Total Cats: 0
Default

I was expecting to get more of a "GET A TURBO" response. So, this was pretty mild.
I'd considered a Turbo before I got this set up. I thought the turbo would be too much work for me. I am not a greahead. I do the basics on my car, brakes, rotors, fluids etc. The simple stuff. Right or wrong I was led to beleive Turbo's would require more input on my part. I really enjoy driving, but not so much the getting under the car. I thought the SC would be a bit easier to deal with. But, like everyone else now I'm searching for a bit more power and I was never able to get a straight answer as to whether I'm getting all I can out of this set up. I'm still trying. Thanks.
mwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:26 PM   #7
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Hmm...still no answers on engine management.

Hard to know what your setup is capable of without knowing your tuning limitations.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:34 PM   #8
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Total Cats: 0
Default

gospeed81,
My buddy has my car now and is going over it re: getting ready for the track. Have my 1st track days of the season coming up Mid-April. He's an outstanding tuner. He is first going over everything from a reliability safety perspective. He's never worked on my car before so he's getting familiar with the base set up. Then installing the air/air intercooler, re-locating the oil filter and adding an oil cooler. Then it's on to maximizing the power. I've heard various comments about going to a smaller pulley and larger injectors. But, not sure if that's right for my set up & what the gain if any would be by doing that. Instead of a gain in performance, would I be gaining more agg. I was hoping some of the guys here would have some experiece with a set up like mine. Thanks.
mwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:38 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
m2cupcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,247
Total Cats: 291
Default

I made 133rwhp with a sebring (msd) timing box. My engine was a little tired. The sc was a great solution at the time since I was just looking for something to make the 1.6 a better daily driver (more torque). I'm speculating, but if you find yourself wanting a "little" more power now, that feeling won't go away until you've reached the upper limit of reliable power on a stock engine. If that's a remote possibility, then you're better off selling the sc as kit and going with a turbo. IMO, having been through both routes of boost, the turbo is not nearly as complicated as it appeared from the SC side of things.
m2cupcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:45 PM   #10
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Well, it's hard to know what "tuning" will entail without knowing what you are using to modify fuel delivery and spark timing.

I'd imagine it's a bandaid setup, with some kind of timing retard box and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

Unless you have real engine management, and bigger injectors you won't get far. The intercooler will help, and allow a little more timing before det sets in.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 01:04 PM   #11
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,207
Total Cats: 2,587
Default

with a 1.6 and a measly m45 I think you're doing ok for power. Wouldn't expect it to put out much more. now is that 139HP or 139WHP?
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 01:20 PM   #12
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Total Cats: 0
Default

18psi:
I was led to believe that's 139 to the wheels. Torque was:134. This was on a DynoJet.
gospeed81:
The guy who owned the car before me was a NASA engineer for whatever that's worth. Used it as a weekend fun car. Everything was pristine. All the upgrades were precisely done and fully documented. That's why I got it. The price was right but everything was done right. It had the full JR M45 set up. MSD timing, water injection, it had everything it was supposed to have. I added the JR Boost Kit, then tore out the: AC, PS, Cruise, steering wheel, conv. top etc.

As I said earlier I know very little regarding the technical aspects of FI. I rely on guys like you on this site and the guys I meet at the track for help and guidance. Little by little I'm learning.
mwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:21 AM   #13
Newb
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SA, Tx
Posts: 32
Total Cats: 0
Default

i have one as well except its only boosting 2psi for some odd reason so no help from me here. im wodering though u mentioned boost kit, from what ive found ive only found the boost kit for the 1.8's not the 1.6's....
do u know more about that boost kit.

And yes like they have said with a MS or some tuning im sure u could squeeze out a bit more power specially with water injection...
oscargarza88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:25 AM   #14
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscargarza88 View Post
i have one as well except its only boosting 2psi for some odd reason so no help from me here. im wodering though u mentioned boost kit, from what ive found ive only found the boost kit for the 1.8's not the 1.6's....
do u know more about that boost kit.

And yes like they have said with a MS or some tuning im sure u could squeeze out a bit more power specially with water injection...
Hotside or cold side?

If coldside belt must be slipping, if hotside check couplers in addition to belt.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:28 AM   #15
Newb
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SA, Tx
Posts: 32
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Hotside or cold side?

If coldside belt must be slipping, if hotside check couplers in addition to belt.

hotside.
I posted a thread about this on M.net and checked and replaced belt all couplers , bypass valve and some other things. What is next is for me to check the rotors since someone said that the coating on it could be worn and not building boost??? i dunno im lost
oscargarza88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:31 AM   #16
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscargarza88 View Post
hotside.
I posted a thread about this on M.net and checked and replaced belt all couplers , bypass valve and some other things. What is next is for me to check the rotors since someone said that the coating on it could be worn and not building boost??? i dunno im lost
Yeah, must be a worn unit.

Those are so simple there's not a lot to diagnose. Not like a turbo with wastegate creep and whatnot.

If it's turning with engine, and none of it's leaking, then efficiency is way down. 2psi is ridiculous, I'm assuming you bought it used. Even then, you should be seeing more.

Maybe double check routing on bypass valve. Seems that it would stay closed before staying open...but worth a shot.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:36 AM   #17
Newb
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SA, Tx
Posts: 32
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Yeah, must be a worn unit.

Those are so simple there's not a lot to diagnose. Not like a turbo with wastegate creep and whatnot.

If it's turning with engine, and none of it's leaking, then efficiency is way down. 2psi is ridiculous, I'm assuming you bought it used. Even then, you should be seeing more.

Maybe double check routing on bypass valve. Seems that it would stay closed before staying open...but worth a shot.
Yes i bought it used BUT with 25k miles... i thought these lasted 100k or something?
And i have a STI so i know all bout turbo problems, new to SC hence the confusion.
I actually zip tied the bypass valve closed to get it out of the picture and still only 2psi.

the interesting thing is that in any gear if i let vacume build up then floor it real quick it goes up to 5-6 psi for like .25 sec then goes back down to 2psi or so. hey at least its consistent haha
oscargarza88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:48 AM   #18
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Sounds like boost leak.

Is your idle high?

Fill in your sig line with mods, including engine management, and put your location in your profile...makes it easier to help. It's also forum ettiquette to start an intro thread in the Meet n' Greet section.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 11:55 AM   #19
Newb
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SA, Tx
Posts: 32
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Sounds like boost leak.

Is your idle high?

Fill in your sig line with mods, including engine management, and put your location in your profile...makes it easier to help. It's also forum ettiquette to start an intro thread in the Meet n' Greet section.
Actually my idle is fine. After a while of running it does "gurgle" at idle but in slow motion, if that makes any sence.

Oh ok thanks i will do that then, im not on this forum very much since obviouslly its mainly a turbo forum but still get good info on here on susp and engine mang mainly.
And from the few threads i read on the SC section its mostly get a turbo!! haha which is understandable...

As for EM i honestly not entirelly too sure, im pretty sure it has a power card but other than that nothing. im saving up for a MS, that should help quite a bit.

And if there are no leaks on the crosspipe section connecting the SC to intake manifold then where else could there be one?

thanks i appreciate the help!!
oscargarza88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 06:31 PM   #20
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Total Cats: 0
Default

I've opted to replace my 1.6 M45 set up for a 1.8 bored out to 2.1, balanced and blue printed. With a 99 head and new header plus other accessories, expecting to get about 170rwhp, naturally aspirated. This should give me much fewer hassles on the track. Will be starting the swap mid-June. Plan is to get more power with less agg. More time on the track less time under the car.
mwest is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Odd Steering issue interestedofold Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 09-29-2015 02:42 PM
Recommended Tire Temp for best friction thumpetto007 Race Prep 4 09-27-2015 06:16 PM
Run boost gauge from ECU MAP? Itty MSPNP 6 09-22-2015 12:02 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.