Jackson Racing Rotrex race kit proto
 

This is a Jackson Racing Rotrex C30-74 supercharger set up, running at about 9.5psi (170kpa) on E85. Should bump a bit when we get full boost of around 14psi. Production blower and bracket but custom intercooler, piping and a programmable ECU (not CARB). Engine is a 1.9L BP6D race engine with our CNC ported head, Tomei cams, ceramic thermal coated chambers, valve heads, crown and exhaust port. RB header & exhaust, square top intake.

The dyno started acting up and stopped displaying power. Later runs we fixed the AFR's and probably made more midrange on low end torque. Still, 200+ lbs instantaneous torque from 4500-8000 is fun. This is in Deviate

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...4980932_o.jpg?

Not sure if you see anything, but it looks like your attachment failed.

Keith

Stole this image from another forum you posted it on :)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1409911681

Keith

Emilio, how much of that power is coming from the SuperMiata motor? A good chunk of it?

About 180whp

So on a normal BP, rough stupid ricer math says we could expect this setup to be more like 240whp?

How are you going to bump up boost that much on a SC? Pulley changes or are you currently running a restrictor?


I'll bet that car moves.:skid:

As mentioned below, we are no making full boost yet. At the same 9.5psi, all other test variables the same but OEM NB2 engine, probably 250-260whp. That is a guess based some similar combinations we have run.

We have a fancy ECU controlled WG setup that isnt tuned right yet. We figured 300whp is enough for this weekend at MRLS. From 5500-8000 it pulls nearly as hard as my C6 Z06. Car weighs 2150 w/o driver. 7.4lbs/hp vs 7.8lbs/hp for the Miata.

This pulley/blower combo should make closer to 15psi on a stock engine and maybe 13psi on our betterbreathing whammy engine. That should be something like 290 and 330whp I think. There are two larger blowers for those that hate their rear tires.

How about a stock BP and 91 octane instead of E85. Any estimates of power the kit could make?

wow. May I ask what size pulley(s) you are running?

E85 is worth about 5% N/A, more on F/I

There is no magic in pulley sizes. You really need to look at all the relevant parameters on your build and call Jackson Racing. They will help you figure out what pulley you need for your particular Rotrex setup.

Crank pulley dia / blower pulley dia x Rotrex traction drive gear ratio for the model you are using x RPM = peak blower speed

Gotcha. I was more curious how fast you were spinning the unit since you are revving a lot higher than most.

Redline for the C30-74 is 120k, iirc from another thread this car is gearing the Rotrex to hit 120k at 8k engine rpm.

I just want to go faster Mr Emilio, is this kit going to work for the average joe such as myself?
How much would one expect to pay for someone to install this kit?

So it is clear, the hardware on this car is one off. Only the blower/pulley/bracket are production parts. Installation would depend on your mechanic. Oscar Jackson himself can install a kit in less than 2hrs but I'd expect the typical shop to charge 4-6 hrs labor.

I don't know Oscar Jackson himself :(

I do have some leftover 'tools' from Ikea, so it should only take me 2 months.

The Rotrex cars looked strong all weekend at MRLS.

I had to make sure this wasn't a necropost from 2007.

ftfy

I guess this means TrackSpeed needs to get their CARB EO number so they can compete :D

So go buy some real tools. If you can't install a rotrex in a weekend you need seriously rethink your mechanical abilities.

I too was watching, and they did look good

Yet more props for Emilio today :giggle:

I have no interest in expanding my mechanical abilities, its my driving abilities Im looking to improve.
Are you interested in a kit 2k? I seem to recall reading that you got burned years ago with the KW kits and their 'pending' CARB EO.

Im not looking to be a master mechanic, nor ultimate power, I just want this thing installed for some spirited driving and to be problem free. We'll see how it goes.

KW never had a pending EO. Jackson Racing CARB's about 2 kits a year for various platform. Their Miata kit already has it's EO # as of about 12 days ago.

If you have a basic automotive tool set and can follow instructions, you can install this kit. As always, we recommend letting a pro do it. Preferably one that knows Miatas.

Sure. If someone gave me one I'd run it and give honest feedback. But that's not going to happen.

Yes, its in my other thread. I don't need to crap up this one with more of that nonsense.

Jackson Racing certainly seems to have their shit together this time around. The ones I saw running at MRLS over the weekend seemed to have no issues. The mounts look far more polished than what KW was selling. The Jacksons as an independent entity seem like pretty solid people, not sure why they got caught up with Group A the first time around.

Regardless, when should full production kits be on the market?

We will start taking orders when we have a more firm ship date. Most likely December orders for January ship.

Having seen the car fairly intimately, and checking out a few others with the carb-legal kit, yeah - it's something anyone can do with real effort. It's just the right level that you'd learn a lot but be able to pull it off. Probably 40% the work of an FM-II, 30% of their old kits. :-)

There was an overwhelming sense of reliability in it. Not sure how much of that came from the fact all the people I saw running them knew how to build solid running cars in the first place, but it sure LOOKS like 5 bolts to glory when it's done. Very clean looking, VERY linear power.

So, around 5% of the effort of installing a BEGi kit without any instructions? :D

Keith

Glad to see that Whammy engine finally got a Rotrex! Power curve looks great! Similar to mine but you got there with less boost. Welcome to the dark side.

I installed mine while doing my first ever timing belt. Both were my first automotive procedures substantially more difficult than an oil change. With a modest collection of hand tools and an ability to read and follow directions anyone can install a rotrex.

I mean, it's not a lego kit, but you can see everything that needs to be done when you open the hood of a rotrex car. It's all right there.

There are even more torques to be found. That was pull number 5. No VVT sweeps. No real fuel sweeps, just trimmed fuel to get it flat-ish. Added a flat timing table (again no sweeps), no sweeps on injection timing. No sweeps on exhaust cam timing. Individual trim COPS and header with 4 WBO2's not set up yet...you get the idea.

My goal is to make 200lbs at 3500 and maybe hit 250 peak. I think it'll make 320whp on top.

320whp should be easy. The 200lbs at 3,500 is gonna be tough but you know better than I do if that VVT can get you there. I like where the new Rotrex tuning is headed. :-) It's good to have company again.

A 250tq peak would be nice to have. I don't know what's holding me back from that. The ebay tri Y header or the skunk2 intake. My bet is on the header.

Hoping to be back from the war by then and this will be my welcome home gift to myself. Also in the market for a hardtop and mega squirt. Glad to see this is coming along so well. Good luck, Emilio. Excited to see the final kit.

He's gonna hate it when he has to build an MS for my Rotrex. :rofl:

Just buy one from Reverant, he don't hate nobody :bigtu:

Brains ok.
It'd be a lesser world w/out him.

Emilio
Any updates on your own implementation of the JR Rotrex kit? In terms of midrange boost/torque, and how you see it as long term solution for track-Miata under constant 30 minute full load?

Wonder if the blow-off valve is working as you wish, and if you see any opportunity to make use (recirculate?) of the bypassed pressure, or maybe see opportunity to slow down Rotrex at Redline to maintain boost and maintain compressor speed (without expensive gearbox)?

How you see this option compared to K24? You seemed poised to go that direction originally upon announcement of the idea/kit, but since the successful racers seem to have lost interest in engine swap. Is it the newly developed head porting that gave Miata new lease of life? or?

You reached your question limit, sorry ;)

The JR Rotrex works perfectly on track. I assume your question pertains to a decision you are trying to make between a K, turbo or Rotrex for track use. The Rotrex solution is the least expensive and easiest to implement.

Our BOV set up works as intended and previously described. I know of no other method for limiting peak output that is as efficient. A simple restrictor is easier to do but provides less precision and is limited in how much boost can be capped. IOW, you can't choke 100whp worth of flow with a restrictor without unpleasant repercussions in charge heat, drag on the blower, etc. The CARB kits will be spun well below blower redline and use a restrictor. The 300whp implementation in Deviate can run max blower CFM and bleed boost down to 220whp on pump gas without any problems.

The OGK (no windshield) will get a K20 with a C30-94 for about 400whp. For no other reason than we want to try it.

I'm glad we get these brief glimpses into your world. ;)

Any update on pricing/availability for the CARB kit?

Will the kit be available for NA8?

89-05

No updates on ETA. Best guess is the first application (probably NA6) will ship February-March with each of the 3 remaining applications coming a month or so after the other. Pricing target still around $4000-ish.

Any idea if these blowers play nice with an exhintake mod?

Not tested. In general, centrifugal superchargers respond to the same mods as a normally aspirated build.

That mod would only benefit the Rotrex. You would want adjustable cam gears to dial in overlap and IVC to best power with the Rotrex.

I run cams slightly more aggressive than yours and my car is quite happy! Almost 300whp on E85.

I am currently running a NA8 with exhintake and it works fine... not sure how much power it's worth, but I already had it installed.


My car stays cool on track for 30 minutes with a Trackspeed rad and coolant reroute. I've been very happy with the Rotrex for track use.

Emilio, you should obviously just pick up my setup and make a twin screw kit instead. ;-) 200 ft-lbs from 2500 to 8k on pump gas! :)

I'm happy with 200 lbs from 4000-8000 at about 10psi. Since we installed it and ran about 10 hrs on track and daily driven for a few months I have had to:

-Check the engine oil level a few times

For laughs, we could swap the production C30-74 on it for the optional C30-94, bolts right up with two new silicone connectors. No other changes and we're at about 420whp, 300lbs torque from 3500-8000 at around 12psi. But that's far more power than I need for this particular project. I'm sure as soon as the JR kits are released, someone will build a stout 1.9L with good head and cams for a C30-94 and hit those numbers. It's silly easy.

I toyed around with the idea of installing a C30-94 but I feel like I am near the limits of the trans and diff with current C30-74. At some point you gotta say enough is enough and be happy with what you got. I plan to spend more of my money on track time next year. I do like the sound of a 400whp winshield delete roadster on the street though.

Yup. C30-94 invites trans failures. The 74 is the sweet spot I think.

Any updates?

After I sorted out my suspension (Xida FTW), I can't wait to get my hands on this kit! Any updates are greatly appreciated :)

Asked in the other wrong thread. On a 1.6 is the rotrex kit still the best power/dollar option? Assuming the BP 1.8 swap and normal build is already going to be a couple thousand total? How easy will the rotrex kit allow you to increase the power on a 1.6 above the CARB stock kit levels?

Remember the difference between power/dollar and torque/dollar. Unless you're on a track or driving like a toolbag on the street, centrifugals won't make your car feel much faster the vast majority of the time.

True, I autocross mostly so torque probably would be noticed more than power. I actually don't street drive that much and only do a couple track days a year.

Still a good idea. Realistically though, your 1.6 probably has low compression if it is the original motor. If so, don't bother rebuilding it. Drop in an NB engine instead.


Speed/dollar, this wins. Based on direct personal experience. Have you extensive experience with Rotrex builds on track cars?

Personally, deviates 300whp felt ah, plenty fast even putting around on the street. No it didn't have 250lbs at 3000rpm but it also had zero TPS/torque lag at any rpm, didn't fall off or require a single touch after initial installation for the 30 or so track hours we beat on it.

Having around 175lbs instantly available pretty much off idle makes it feel like a mini Z06. The key here is the instant part. No revs, no waiting, just tip in from a light and pulls like very healthy 3.0 V6.

I like the character of my NA6, I would just like that character with more power where it actually starts to feel like a fast car.

Does Oscar have these posted on his own site or will distribute via 949? Just wondering how they compare to the kraftwerks/whatever it was stuff from a couple years back. I believe with those kits only the 99+ motor was dyno'd up to 200whp I just wondered how actually limiting the 1.6 is since I know Ryan was making 240 on his turbo 1.6

20% less engine means 20% less everything. Look at the dyno plot, it just feels, sounds, drives, pulls like a much bigger engine. You don't hear or feel anything to let you know it's F/I other than a little whoosh or muted chirp hear and there.

Here in the US, we won't build, dyno or experiment with the 1.6 beyond the CARB kit. We will leave that to customers.

Is there a posted dyno for the 1.6 kit like from "Sugar" or anything?

Not yet. There will be when the kits are released in a few months.