949Racing SuperMiata Tecna Coilover
 

Emilio just posted this up yesterday on the SuperMiata facebook page. Pretty cool setup for the guys wanting to do suspension on a budget. This could make the Bilstein budget coilover obsolete. Looks like a more budget friendly shock body with custom valving and NB hats, pretty cool at his target price point. These will probably be very popular. He posted up saying they were testing 450/300 rates right now.

Emilio
These are prototype SuperMiata Tecna coilovers. We are developing these pretty much from scratch. Still in R&D phase right now. We hope to have these shipping by early 2014. These non-damping adjustable, low pressure gas, twin tube dampers feature powdercoated springs, anodized cnc aluminum collars and stainless steel bodies (not chrome). The goal is to provide the best ride quality possible for a lowered Miata possible for under $750 complete as pictured with factory NB mounts, ready to bolt in. Minimum ride height will just about allow control arms to run out of stroke for maximum rough road bottoming resistance. As a nice side effect of the extreme bump travel available and damping control, they will handle far better than any OTS OEM replacement shock. These are not race shocks or anything like Xidas. The prototype we're testing now have been track tested for durabilty and basic handling balance with excellent results. Good ride over big hits. We're still tweaking NVH over small bumps and coarse pavement

In for re-badged racelands.

FM seems to be having success with selling cheap vmaxx coilovers with miata specific valving. I dont know the Tecna brand, but they are targeting the same price point and there's nothing wrong with a little more competiton in that segment, especially when the product is backed by a reputable miata supplier.

I feel like everytime I visit FM's website the prices have gone up on just about everything. Either that I could be getting more broke. In for more competition.

FM's "sport" vmaxx are $915, and the classic are $715... that seems higher than last I looked.

Edit: Ah I see $615 for NB, maybe that's what I remember. Gonna be hard to compete with them at that price point.

Yep, agreed:

FM can't keep their vmaxx on the shelves they sell so well.
Other companies like raceland and megan can't keep stock of their crappy coilovers either cause they sell so well.

Why not right?

If this is a "vmaxx alternative" for similar cash I think he's gonna be successful with these.

Corrected to allow for normal 949R delays vs initial expectations.

:dealwithit:

Supplier and Miata racer. Hopefully that carries the weight it should with suspension shoppers. I definitely would have looked hard at, and probably purchased, these if they were available when I picked up the Tein Basics in part because I was looking for a complete, bolt-in budget option without damping adjustment.

HA!

Unfortunately, it's funny cuz it's true

Is that $750 including the helpers/dual? that's a pretty fuggin good deal considering secondary springs are easily $150-$200 for a complete set (including the seat/spacer thingy).

If the valving is right and the quality is good enough to last 4 years/50,000 street miles, that's a very intriguing product.

Simple goal with the tecna is the best possible ride quality for modestly lowered street Miatas at an affordable price point. Because we designed them to have maximum possible bump travel and controlled damping on rough roads, they end up handling well enough for the occasional autocross or track day. To be clear though, track performance is not the primary goal with the tecna. They are not "race" shocks. Just as the Xidas being focused for competition use bestows them with surprisingly good ride quality on the street with big spring rates, the tecna being focused on ride quality pays dividends in sport driving even with much softer spring rates.

The basic damper config is set, supply chain ready, BOM suppliers and inventory ready. Valving over high speed and high amplitude displacements is nearly spot on. We're now fine tuning the valving to improve the ride over small amplitude, low velocity inputs. Once that's finalized, we hit the green button. We could green light it now and have dampers here by new years but I want to squeeze that last bit of plush from the coilover before I pull the trigger. Pretty confident we can have these here by the end of Q1/14.

I expected comments like this because they are similarly colored.
The tecna is a not a rebadged anything, designed and engineered from scratch in partnership with Hanchey Vehicle Technologies in Plano, TX.
Ricelands have chromed bodies, the tecna have stainless steel bodies BTW.


The brand is SuperMiata. The model of this particular coilover is tecna.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1384973144

These sound like something that would have fit the bill perfectly for me. The Tokico Illumina and FM spring combo is fine, but I would have rather had the ability to adjust ride height rather than damping. I just didn't trust the build quality of the vmaxx. These look like they are going to be very high quality units with great valving.

Inb4 test mule offers begin to flood 949's office.

Will these ride better than XIDAs?

An honest question:

Why would someone want these (with adjustable ride height and fixed damping), versus something like FM springs with adjustable Tokicos and fixed perches, or Ground Controls and Bilsteins?

I may be looking to replace my 10 year old FM/AGX setup next summer.

Ha! Serious? Of course they won't, otherwise no one would buy them...


Granted my experience with high quality suspension is fairly limited, but I've been seriously impressed with the budget NB Bilstein/ebay sleeve/name brand 6" springs setup on two cars so far. Very streetable, and very reassuring over bumps.

How might these compare? Seems similar and a really good price, especially with the helper springs.

I'm pretty sure you answered your own question.
Do you want dampening adjustment or height adjustment?
Pick your poison. The FM1 setup rides REALLY good IMO. If these are similar/same for $750 I think they'll be absolutely great.

Yeah. Serious.

I have XIDAs. Got them because they were supposed to ride the best.

If Emilio says XIDAs ride well as a side effect, and these are designed from ground up to ride well, he has my attention.

With the same soft spring rates, maybe.

Tokicos ride like crap
KYB AGX's ride even worse
OTS Bilsteins are actually pretty good but still won't ride as well as tecnas.

The problem with OTS Bilsteins is the damping compromise. They almost ride awesome and almost work on the track but do neither extremely well. I have been recommending OTS Bilsteins to friend for their dailys for years. With the tecna, our aim is to optimize for ride quality above all else. Our experience has shown that even optimized for ride, they will handle light autocross and track duty just fine. The tecna will be eons better for autocross and track than anything based on Tokicos, Koni yellow or ST, or KYB's. To be fair, 100k mile OEM Showas handle better than KYB AGX's.

We have not made a final decision on warranty but it will be two years at minimum, possibly five.

Shocks and springs should be matched to work together. What's the point in having the #5 setting on the tokico shocks when all that does is jack down the suspension because it's too tight for the springs. A perfectly valved shock to match specific spring rates makes for a real nice ride.

I don't think it's a silly question if these ride better than XIDAs. They obviously won't offer near the performance, but if they're ride-focused then they should have the ability to beat something that's performance-focused.

Glad to see this option. Sounds perfect for how I would be using a Miata... If I had a Miata...

Edit to add: Sounds awesome Emilio. There should be lots of demand for these, and I expect them to be better than the competition by quite a large margin based on your experience and other products.

Googled "tecna"

Seeing the image results, I think you picked the perfect name for Miataturbo.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1384978592

It's not a pony but nobody's perfect ;)

This kit appears to come complete as a bolt-in affair, including bump stops and top hats, that are all designed from the ground up to be an integrated setup. You get dampers, springs, and bump stops all designed to work together and engineered by people that (A) certainly seem to know about suspension setups and (B) certainly seem to know about suspension setups on Miatas.

How often do you adjust the damping on your AGX setup? Do you have any idea what each click of the knob does to the damping? You'd probably be surpised.

I would MUCH rather have non-adjustable dampers with quality curves/response versus one with mediocre curves/response that you can make... different... by turning a knob. I say "different," because it might not be "better."

I would argue that most people grossly overestimate the value of adjustment knobs on low-end (sub-$2k) setups.

It's tecna, actually. Came up with the name after racking my brain over it for many months.

Twin Tube
Economy
Comfort
Non Adjustable

Liked the way it sounded but still wasn't sure. Did google search, clicked images tab. Win.

I guess I assumed that with adjustable damping one of the settings would be a good match for the springs, but I'm learning that it's more complicated than that. I can imagine adjusting the damping more often than the ride height, for street versus autocross. In any case, I just bought what was cheap from FM 10 years ago because I didn't really know much about suspension. I still don't know a lot but I'm trying to educate myself.

With the AGX's I adjusted the knob (whatever that's really doing) until the suspension didn't oscillate over bumps anymore. That's how I settled on my street settings. For autocross I tended to run them stiffer, with the back a couple clicks softer than the front based on run times and how the car felt.

The car was off the road for a few years and coming back to it I realize how shitty the ride is and how moderate mid-corner bumps upset it. I'm sure a lot of this is due to a lack of suspension travel in the back, which is why this 949 setup is interesting.

The data is a little outdated and the author a polarizing figure, but the following is a reasonable coverage of cheap adjustable shocks:

Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Buying Shocks

I would much rather have good dampers that I don't futz with and height-adjustability to corner-weight the car vs a static ride height via springs designed for stock dampers and questionable dampers designed for stock springs that I can "adjust."

What I ended up with was a compromised spring rate, damper, and bumpstop combination that were allegedly designed to run together. I would have a lot more faith that the SuperMiata Tecna combo would actually accomplish that mission in a Miata-specific application.

What I will probably end up doing is getting Xidas, because I like to party. :party:

This. I had $1100 Konis on my car before the XIDAs. I adjusted the shocks once in three years.

Thank you Emilio, this is exactly what I'm in the market for. I've been eyeing others that will soon be your competitors in this market segment, but felt some hesitation regarding ride quality/respectable performance. I've got much more confidence in a similar product you've personally developed. In for future details and data.

Can't wait until spring (pun intended)!

These sound great! I definitely know what to recommend to ppl when they ask me what suspension they should get for their miata(after refusing the Xida's price-tag).

Question... why twin-tube over monotube? Was it a manufacturing price-point on the monos that threw it out of budget?

Cost primarily. When production engineered to a lower price point, it's also easier to get twin tube valving to behave well over low amplitude, high velocity inputs. To do that with a monotube requires more sophistication, more expensive materials and cost. This is one reason why so many low cost monotubes are OK on big hits but have only so-so ride quality of ripply pavement.

So going with a twin tube is the right tool for the job in our case.

Totally selling my shitty coilovers to someone on clubroadster and buying these.

Which would be superior in your opinion for occasional track duty and DD'ing, Emilio? Tein Flex or these?

You've got my attention. How will these ride down dirt roads? I live down a pretty long one and HATE the way my kyb's feel on it. Makes my car rattle apart.

Where I live the roads in town suck, but we still have smooth canyons. It sounds like these might just be perfect for me.

Remind me the next time we get some people together around here, to take you for a ride....perhaps drive....to get some input on my suspension setup.

Josh doesn't know shit about suspension mike :P interesting new option for simple coilovers curious to see how they stack up to bilstein a with sleeves

Other than taking an educated guess, why would he possibly know the answer to that question?

"How will these budget-oriented coilovers handle light duty off-roading in my Miata?"

:rofl:

Oh how I wish I would have stuck to my original plan on upgrading suspension March of next year instead of buying Vmaxx's and swaybars a few weeks ago...

Interesting, these sound exactly like the perfect setup for my dad's miata. But they're too rich for his blood, maybe I'll buy them for him for christmas next year or something. Or if I happened across a set earlier they could become my new go to recommendation for under $2000 shocks. God knows how many local people who've bought VMaxx because of me.

As a coilover he has designed himself from the ground up, he might have more than a guess. We can let the man answer for himself. He stated they are being designed for comfort and DD duties in mind. For me DD requires about a mile of dirt road driving each time I take out the car. While the road is dirt, it's nowhere near "light duty off-roading"

Assuming at a reasonable ride height they should ride decently down a dirt road at mild speeds isn't out of the question. In addition to ride quality, I'm curious on how they will hold up after daily dirt road driving as well.

I'd hope they were good down a dirt road. I would rate the xidas well in dirt road duty. Now I would rate the RS3s as poor in dirt road duty for a tire. :rofl:

How much cheaper does it get for a complete setup with dampers, springs, bumpstops, and upper mounts? That's an honest question.

I know I paid a bit less for my Tein Basics + NB mounts but that was in large part because I used to work in the industry and still get some pretty significant hookups from some shops. I don't think they'd be much (if any) cheaper at regular retail.

V-Maxx are in the same ballpark. Spring and damper setups like the FM Stage 1 suspension kit are as (or more expensive). I guess you have Racelands and the like, but I never cross-shopped those.

Or are you just saying your dad likely won't buy any suspension because of the cost?

Its the last one, he was considering just kyb gr2 shocks because he though that he had original showas, until I showed him the brand new looking top shock shaft, nut and mount on a 100k mile car that said the previous owner was moron and just brought it to the dealer to have shocks done before selling it, and it looks like they did every rubber bushing in the car while it was there. :rofl:

TAKE MY MONEY!!

Lol
I've been looking to replace my OEM r package stuff with something that was MADE for ride quality. I assure you, if you want to REALLY test these things out. Let me buy them and i'll give them hell on Michigan raods. That will be the true test. These seem perfect for me though. Can lower the car a little, better ride quality, and better handling, low price and aren't racelands. Win win.

Seriously, I'm trying to find a Miata just so I can put these on it.

Don't know yet. So far, the prototypes tecnas are better on our rough local track (Streets of Willow) with 450/400 rates than Street Flex with the same rates. That might improve further when valving is finalized. The primary difference is stroke and droop travel. The rear tecna has over an inch more shaft stroke than the Street Flex, but the same bump travel.

What you are asking is "will tecnas absorb bumper better than AGX's?"

Crushed beer cans stuffed into gym socks will absorb bumps better than AGX's. tecna ride quality is near that of Xidas on rough surfaces.
Stainless bodies, powdercoated or anodized everything. The main reason we are track testing tecnas is to see if we can blow them up. So far, they just got better after a day at the track.

For the many of you asking if you can get free shocks to test, ah, no... ever.

Any plans for an option with stiffer rates down the road?

I'm in for next spring to buy these.

I've dealt with 949 already and they are a great place to spend my hard earned money. I trust that these will be another shining example of filling a need at a reasonable cost.


Thanks 949

Do you need some really cold weather seal testing done?

Say -30 Celsius and very bumpy winter roads ?

K, sign me up. You are going to sell so many sets of these if they perform anything like you are saying.

Nope. These are not race shocks. Also, they're not race shocks.

The tecna use standard length 2.25" springs for weight savings and tire clearance. It should be easy for folks to swap springs if they so desire.

Same here. I'll be following these with interest.

I happen to think my FM1/Illumina combo is very comfortable on the street. Setting 2 perfect for daily use, setting 3 great for aggressive driving. And I've tried a good handful of setups including different bilsteins.
From how you're describing these they better be HEAVENLY for you to say the tokicos ride like garbage. I mean seriously, they better blow our socks off.

Agreed, which is why I'll anxiously await some reviews before I drop cash. I have no doubt they are better than my setup which admittedly is trash, but turning better lap times than tien flex, AND ride quality close to xidas and I'm throwing money at my screen.

My experience with the Tokico Illuminas is thus;

Adjusted to provide the best ride quality they are capable of with lowering springs, they have almost no low speed rebound damping. Worse than OEM. Weak enough to be unnerving on a fast freeway connector road taken at 7/10ths. Adjusted stiff so they have any low speed rebound damping at all (still about 30% of what it needs to be) and the hysteresis in low speed compression becomes so severe as to render the dampers useless at full speed on a track with sticky tires. Bouncing and heaving everywhere, chattering under braking on rippled pavement. If all a driver knows is poorly matched entry level stuff, they might not understand how much room there is for improvement. In short, they don't do anything well.

The Illuminas are bad enough that they are not even on my radar. Bilsteins are far superior. It still baffles me that people spend money on AGX's, Koni ST's and Illuminas.

The only damper/spring anywhere in this price range that I'm comparing to is the standard Vmaxxxxx,xxx.xx-xx or OTS Bilsteins with Tein lowering springs.

that's interesting because I went from Vmaxx to the FM1 and noticed an improvement in ride quality and comfort, all else being completely identical

Nothing to be baffled about. I'm sure my story isn't unique.

First project car I've owned.
First resource I start to use to learn how to mod? Miata.net
First miata aftermarket company with a good reputation I learn about? Flyin Miata.
People on m.net say FM is the best and you can trust them.
Call FM and order their recommended suspension package.

I'm not saying that's the best pathway, but I think it's common. When faced with the choice between junk racelands at one end of the spectrum and XIDAs and AFCOs at the other, the FM/Illumina combo makes some sense.

Oh come on - you realize he's gotta make money too right? Just annoying how people are basically willing to dismiss everything else and claim these as the new holy grail before they are even out.

I mean no disrespect at all, but just a few months ago him and Sav would laugh at anyone that doesn't get Xida. Performance OR comfort. Basically its either OEM or Xida, and anyone spending money on anything in the middle is a braindead moron.

Now that they're participating in the mid level suspension market, these things are supposed to blow everything else out of the water.

We will see I guess. I respect 949 and obviously hope these are as good as they say they are, but man these claims are getting pretty huge.

Sounds like someone is butthurt over having bought what a respected, knowledgeable member of the community is saying is a sub-par suspension. I'll trust Emilio.

Honestly, I see what he's saying. The hurdle Emilio faces here is trying to convince someone who is already happy with what he has to part with money for his (Emilio's) new product.

Way to be a downer. Here's the difference to me:

1. Not cobbled together from various OTS parts that were never intended to be used together.
2. Specific, realistic goals that exactly match my own (plush ride, height adjustable, balanced handling).
3. Developed by someone who has spent countless hours experimenting with Miata suspensions and the ride/handling question.
4. Pricepoint that makes it competitive with convenient solutions that had questionable development (V-Maxx, Megans, etc) and inconvenient solutions that required guesswork (DIY Bilsteins or Konis).

Sure, it needs to actually hit the market, and then we'll see if it still meets all those criteria. But if it does, then it's not just another mid-level option -- it's a mid-level option offering something none of the others are.

In what ways is the ride quality of the FM1/Illumina setup better than the Vmaxx?

When you turn the knob from "2" to "3," what does it do?