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Old 08-02-2014, 01:12 PM   #1
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Default AWR mounts vs SSK to help missing 3rd gear?

As some of you may know, I'm starting to make decent power in my 04 MSM. Roughly around 270-300whp depending on gas/spark map. one of my issue now is that 3rd gear is getting harder to find when trying to shift fast (especially when hooning around) and it feels like it has gotten progressively worse as the power has come up.

I'm pretty sure my mounts are still in one piece as the car only has 25k miles on it and they looked good when the motor went back in a few thousand miles ago. And my shifter bushing is in good shape too with Amsoil MTG oil.

Also I'm not sure if I never noticed it, or just never drove on a piece of road regularly enough that showed symptoms, but my god, the shifter,(aka tranny) moves around a lot just sitting there cruising in 6th gear in some instances.

There is a pretty good wash board part of I15 going either north or south between 8 and 52, where it moves a lot more than what I consider acceptable. Ie; moving left to right probably 1/4 to 1/2".

What would you look at first to help me out in this situation. I know one of the answers is just shift slower, but would either the mounts or the SSK help more in this situation?

When I do miss, I'm pretty sure I'm hitting between 1st and 3rd. And it's not just me, my father and a coworker have hit the exact same thing.

Thanks.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:23 PM   #2
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ES diff bushings?
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:40 PM   #3
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Sav. I had not even really looked at those. Thanks for your input. I'll check them out.
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:07 PM   #4
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They are cheap, easy to install, and get rid of a lot of shifter movement, or at least it did for me. I'm at stock power level, but I still noticed a difference. The downside is that you hear a lot more of what happens in your transmission and differential. I actually like it, but I know some may not find it suitable. Mazda Competition mounts are also an option if you do not like the extra NVH, but they are more expensive, and softer.
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:29 PM   #5
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IMO, the ES bushings add the most to the shift feel for the least amount of NVH increase.
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:50 PM   #6
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AWR style 70D engines mounts + Mazda Competition differential mounts checking in.

The AWRs are frigging GLORIOUS for reducing drivetrain movement, but I wholeheartedly recommend you get a ride in someones car who has them installed before you commit. I was not prepared for the increase in NVH for what is primarily a street car.
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
AWR style 70D engines mounts + Mazda Competition differential mounts checking in.

The AWRs are frigging GLORIOUS for reducing drivetrain movement, but I wholeheartedly recommend you get a ride in someones car who has them installed before you commit. I was not prepared for the increase in NVH for what is primarily a street car.
I've been mostly looking at you in what to expect from them.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:07 AM   #8
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IMO, the ES bushings add the most to the shift feel for the least amount of NVH increase.
Totally agree, that's why I bought them. I can say they helped dramatically, and are totally livable on the street.

I have no experience with the AWR mounts, but everyone's reaction is HOLY S***! in 2 ways, 1)They stiffen up the drivetrain to where you never have an excuse to miss a shift, 2)My car is now a jackhammer.

I do have experience with the Mazda Comp motor mounts, and ES differential bushings, and I can say for a street car, it really makes driving more fun and the shifter moves significantly less than the stock setup.

I would say give the ES bushings a shot if I were you, they are super cheap, and can't hurt anything. If you don't like the NVH increase from them, you could never, ever live with the NVH from the AWRs. If that's not stiff enough, give the Mazda Comp motor mounts a chance. The Mazda Comp motor mounts barely increase NVH at all in my opinion, and they help, but not as much as the ES bushings.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:20 AM   #9
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I'm not willing to write off the AWRs quite yet, I'm reserving judgement until I make it through the 500 mile break-in period.

Back when I still had the stock (cracked and torn) motor mounts I installed the Comp diff bushings "because I was in there" doing a torsen swap and that alone was a dramatic change in shifting accuracy. I could see the ES in the diff to be a huge help over the stockers.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:42 AM   #10
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Andrew has already hooked it up on the diff bushings. I'll look into Mazda comp motor mounts in the future.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:09 PM   #11
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AWRs didnt really add much more vibration to the car than the broken stock mounts. Although I'm also comparing vibes from an 8ok mile factory motor to a balanced to survive life at 8500 built motor. They made it a **** load louder. The noise in the interior at idle is louder than standing behind the car. But once you get above 3k every thing smooths right out.

What are SSK mounts? I've never heard of them before. If they're delrin you're going to want to stay clear unless you want to have to stop to tighten all the bolts in the car every 3 miles. And if they're any other sort of stock style mount they dont restrain the drivetrain nearly as well as the AWR mounts.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:29 PM   #12
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Leafy, don't be gay. SSK = Short Shifter Kit. I'm pretty sure you are under 30 so you should know this.

I've had 2~3 SSKs in various 5 & 6 speed Miatas over the years and the only one that impressed me was the MiataRoadster one that I'm running in my current 6 speed.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:31 PM   #13
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The Mazdacomp motor mounts + ES diff bushing combo helps, but still sucks.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Leafy, don't be gay. SSK = Short Shifter Kit. I'm pretty sure you are under 30 so you should know this.

I've had 2~3 SSKs in various 5 & 6 speed Miatas over the years and the only one that impressed me was the MiataRoadster one that I'm running in my current 6 speed.
back in my day we called those STS=short throw shifters. I dont think I'd want to own a 6 speed without the miataroadster sts, cause the stock shifter makes it feel like a truck with 300k miles.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:42 PM   #15
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Sorry, yeah. I used the term SSK because that's what Bill from Miataroadster pretty much always references on this site, so I thought that'd make sense. I wasn't trying to be trendy with the acronyms.

Thanks all for the advice. I'm going to start with the ES bushings. I'm guessing it'll help a little and I'll just have to see how much of a improvement that is in my opinion. And then I'm pretty sure my stock mounts will need replacing fairly soon after that. Maybe there will be a softer AWR version out by then.

I was contemplating getting in on Bills group buy, but I guess I'll hold off a little longer. I really want a good seat.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:45 PM   #16
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If you want a softer AWR version, ask for it now. I already made the suggestion to Tony that there's a market for a mount that doesnt rip out like the stock mounts do but isnt a poly mount and he said he'd look into it. More interest would make him look into it faster.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
If you want a softer AWR version, ask for it now. I already made the suggestion to Tony that there's a market for a mount that doesnt rip out like the stock mounts do but isnt a poly mount and he said he'd look into it. More interest would make him look into it faster.
Who's Tony?
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:51 PM   #18
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Anthony Woodford Racing
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:52 PM   #19
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The "Anthony" part of Anthony Woodford Racing.
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:02 PM   #20
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People complain that the MazdaComp bushings only last a season under hard abuse, and those are like $48/EACH (949) to replace. Replacement 70D bushings for these mounts are $32 (949) for a complete set. How often are people swapping out the bushings on these things?

The design of the AWR makes me wonder if a softer bushing is really the answer here. There just isn't that much "meat" in the bushing to absorb the energy getting pumped out of the engine in the form of vibration. On the other hand, though it might not last "as long" a complete set of softer bushing that costs $32 a year to replace is really not that bad. I'd buy a softer insert just to try them out. Hell, I'd considered cutting something myself if I had access to a lathe.

Keep in mind this is a BECAUSERACECAR part that was designed to meet the needs of that particular group of people. The way I see it, us foolish street users really should have no business complaining about NVH when using a dedicated racecar part.
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