The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread
#381
Becareful with the numbers you get from the FCM spreadsheet. A user on here found an error in it, and it hasn't been fixed since.
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...in-salt-71140/
I think the FRC tends to be a few percent off (which it already is a bit off due to some assumptions we make).
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...in-salt-71140/
I think the FRC tends to be a few percent off (which it already is a bit off due to some assumptions we make).
#382
Hell yes, Failure you da man. If we got exact dimensions for the regular NB shocks that'd be all I need. MSM shocks are probably close enough in travel to use your numbers and subtract the difference in free length. I'll measure when I take them off again.
I'm thinking I might do a tad less than an inch of extension at my ride height. The fronts can probably stay stock.
I'm thinking I might do a tad less than an inch of extension at my ride height. The fronts can probably stay stock.
#383
It would, but make sure you're not going below zero preload. If the spring is loose when you jack the car all the way up, you need helper springs. Here's the cheapest source I've found: PAC Racing Coilover Tender Springs - Starting at $29.95
As far as spring rates, I've been planning to go with 500/350 with a Racing Beat tubular FSB and stock RSB. Play around with the Fatcat spreadsheet a bit, it's fun.
As far as spring rates, I've been planning to go with 500/350 with a Racing Beat tubular FSB and stock RSB. Play around with the Fatcat spreadsheet a bit, it's fun.
Not a lot of sources for those so be prepared to spend;
You can also use Hyperco springs if all you're concerned is with keeping the main spring planted. They are less expensive and have a low block height (which is what they're at 99% of the time).
https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...ed=0CFAQpiswAA
But, with the ebay sleeves you're limited as to how far you can drop the car (and why do you want to get below the usual 12 - 12.5" anyway) because the sleeves seat "on top of" the clips without extending below.
Last edited by bahurd; 02-05-2015 at 11:28 AM.
#385
Becareful with the numbers you get from the FCM spreadsheet. A user on here found an error in it, and it hasn't been fixed since.
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...in-salt-71140/
I think the FRC tends to be a few percent off (which it already is a bit off due to some assumptions we make).
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...in-salt-71140/
I think the FRC tends to be a few percent off (which it already is a bit off due to some assumptions we make).
If you're going to lower the perch to the point you're concerned about needing helper/tender springs then you also need to put the spacer/coupler in between the springs.
Not a lot of sources for those so be prepared to spend;
Not a lot of sources for those so be prepared to spend;
http://www.wideopendesign.com/Product/56/2.5-Tender-coil-Slider.aspx
#386
Ah, I'd read that thread but forgotten about it. Good call. It's possible to bandaid around the bug by dividing spring rates by 2 when calculating FRC, right?
Once again, good call. These couplers with the PAC helpers and cheap mains are a bit cheaper than just buying new Swift or Hyperco springs, but it's probably worth the difference to just buy the good springs. When I get home I'll ballpark the price to have a delrin coupler made.
2.5" Tender Coil Slider :: Wide Open Design
Once again, good call. These couplers with the PAC helpers and cheap mains are a bit cheaper than just buying new Swift or Hyperco springs, but it's probably worth the difference to just buy the good springs. When I get home I'll ballpark the price to have a delrin coupler made.
2.5" Tender Coil Slider :: Wide Open Design
The Hyperco springs I linked are 2.5" x 4" tender springs. Not main springs.
Hyperco CS100 Take Up Spring 2.5in. Autoplicity.com | Discount Performance and OEM Auto Parts, 100% In Stock
I looked at PAC products but couldn't really find any technical information other than basic dia & rate. The wire looked a little thick to me in the picture and I thought that, considering they spend most of the time fully blocked, the additional thichness would add to the blocked height. The blocked height of the tender springs + the minimal spacer thickness all detract from the ebay sleeve height capability. That's one reason why it's best to start with the better sleeves IMHO.
I may be wrong, not the first time.
#387
Well, Fast Mike was the originator, at least.
FCM picked up where Fast Mike left off.
At least, that's what Mike tells me.
I'm running a set of factory revalved Bilsteins that Mike (and Ramon from Bilstein) put together.
They're amazingly compliant with 600lb/350lb springs. Very close to Xida dampening on the streets and live-able when you factor in the cost difference between them.
FCM picked up where Fast Mike left off.
At least, that's what Mike tells me.
I'm running a set of factory revalved Bilsteins that Mike (and Ramon from Bilstein) put together.
They're amazingly compliant with 600lb/350lb springs. Very close to Xida dampening on the streets and live-able when you factor in the cost difference between them.
#388
The Hyperco springs I linked are 2.5" x 4" tender springs. Not main springs.
Hyperco CS100 Take Up Spring 2.5in. Autoplicity.com | Discount Performance and OEM Auto Parts, 100% In Stock
I looked at PAC products but couldn't really find any technical information other than basic dia & rate. The wire looked a little thick to me in the picture and I thought that, considering they spend most of the time fully blocked, the additional thichness would add to the blocked height. The blocked height of the tender springs + the minimal spacer thickness all detract from the ebay sleeve height capability. That's one reason why it's best to start with the better sleeves IMHO.
I may be wrong, not the first time.
Hyperco CS100 Take Up Spring 2.5in. Autoplicity.com | Discount Performance and OEM Auto Parts, 100% In Stock
I looked at PAC products but couldn't really find any technical information other than basic dia & rate. The wire looked a little thick to me in the picture and I thought that, considering they spend most of the time fully blocked, the additional thichness would add to the blocked height. The blocked height of the tender springs + the minimal spacer thickness all detract from the ebay sleeve height capability. That's one reason why it's best to start with the better sleeves IMHO.
I may be wrong, not the first time.
#391
I'll wait for your link...
150lb spring rate seems pretty high for a "helper" spring. If the purpose is a "tender" spring then sure.
I don't recall ever seeing definitive "proof" on this site on what the Xidas are and I doubt anyone at 949 is going to give you their spec sheet.
But anyway, you do your thing and I'll run my setup as I built it. Take care.
150lb spring rate seems pretty high for a "helper" spring. If the purpose is a "tender" spring then sure.
I don't recall ever seeing definitive "proof" on this site on what the Xidas are and I doubt anyone at 949 is going to give you their spec sheet.
But anyway, you do your thing and I'll run my setup as I built it. Take care.
#392
I'll wait for your link...
150lb spring rate seems pretty high for a "helper" spring. If the purpose is a "tender" spring then sure.
I don't recall ever seeing definitive "proof" on this site on what the Xidas are and I doubt anyone at 949 is going to give you their spec sheet.
But anyway, you do your thing and I'll run my setup as I built it. Take care.
150lb spring rate seems pretty high for a "helper" spring. If the purpose is a "tender" spring then sure.
I don't recall ever seeing definitive "proof" on this site on what the Xidas are and I doubt anyone at 949 is going to give you their spec sheet.
But anyway, you do your thing and I'll run my setup as I built it. Take care.
#397
I'll wait for your link...
150lb spring rate seems pretty high for a "helper" spring. If the purpose is a "tender" spring then sure.
I don't recall ever seeing definitive "proof" on this site on what the Xidas are and I doubt anyone at 949 is going to give you their spec sheet.
But anyway, you do your thing and I'll run my setup as I built it. Take care.
150lb spring rate seems pretty high for a "helper" spring. If the purpose is a "tender" spring then sure.
I don't recall ever seeing definitive "proof" on this site on what the Xidas are and I doubt anyone at 949 is going to give you their spec sheet.
But anyway, you do your thing and I'll run my setup as I built it. Take care.
Xida's helper springs are more akin to a dual or triple spring setup you would see on off-road racing/rally setups. I think they are also used in some GT cars.
There are similar springs to Xida helpers sold by some company in the UK, but the pricing is more expensive than the add-on for Xidas.
Ah, I'd read that thread but forgotten about it. Good call. It's possible to bandaid around the bug by dividing spring rates by 2 when calculating FRC, right?
Once again, good call. These couplers with the PAC helpers and cheap mains are a bit cheaper than just buying new Swift or Hyperco springs, but it's probably worth the difference to just buy the good springs. When I get home I'll ballpark the price to have a delrin coupler made.
http://www.wideopendesign.com/Produc...il-Slider.aspx
Once again, good call. These couplers with the PAC helpers and cheap mains are a bit cheaper than just buying new Swift or Hyperco springs, but it's probably worth the difference to just buy the good springs. When I get home I'll ballpark the price to have a delrin coupler made.
http://www.wideopendesign.com/Produc...il-Slider.aspx
basically, new numbers have been measured that deviate from what is in the FCM spreadsheet. Those numbers are available to play with, if you so choose. As I am sure you understand, they can have a significant effect on the final FRC.
#398
Would people be interested in a 3" long 100 or 150lb tender spring? I'm putting together a set of Ebay coilovers and it's crossed my mind. I've been thinking about calling a few spring venders to see if anyone would make some up for me, hopefully for substantially less than the Eibach's. I'd probably want to order a couple dozen at a minimum though.
#400
You're not going to get a custom spring for less $$$ than what's already available unless you're ordering in much bigger quantities than this thread has participants.
You're best bet might be trying someone like Riceland and asking to buy some of their helper springs. But yeah, I'd be interested in a group buy for helper springs.
You're best bet might be trying someone like Riceland and asking to buy some of their helper springs. But yeah, I'd be interested in a group buy for helper springs.