Can't Wait for 949 Clutch Anymore
 

So what's the next best 1.6 flavor for an n/a 1.8?

I value a fast and very positive engagement and light weight over easy to drive. Stock clutches drive me insane with the lack of "feel."

Current front runners:

1) South Bend TZ "Stage 2" Kevlar full face sprung - $330
2) Clutchnet "Stage 3" full face organic sprung - $360
3) ACT HDG4 4 puck sprung - $340
4) Clutchnet "Stage 3" full face organic unsprung - $320
5) Outlawed Spec Miata aluminum billet madness - $400

Much as i want to "be a man," i don't think the Spec Miata setup is the right answer. I DO realize that all of these clutches are more than my motor will ever need, but in my experience, the weaker clutches tend to feel like garbage. I've used the South Bend before in another build, and it was almost too soft feeling, but positive enough i could deal with it.

Called Clutchnet and he suggested a Stage 3 for me based on what sort of pedal feel i want. I DO like their method of spring retention.

ACT is well... ACT. They make quality stuff, and we all know that.

Clutchnet was concerned about my interest in the unsprung disk, said it would almost certainly destroy my transmission. I'm not sure on that, i don't think any N/A BP is killing a 6spd in quick fashion. Unsprung disk weighs 1lb less than sprung.

Guide me. I am NOT interested in 1.8 stuff.

<p>@hi_im_sean</p>

I'm extremely pleased with the setup I went with for my N/A 1.8l. Super responsive, light, feels great on track and is surprisingly tame enough to still be somewhat streetable.

Fidanza 1.6l Flywheel (7lbs)
Exedy 1.6l Stage 2 (Thick Disk, 3 Puck)

I saw that one, but was a little worried about holding capacity. I have a "Taxi-style" motor build in the works, would like to see 150wtq. That seems to be right on the edge of what that's rated for.

What's the pedal feel like? Really positive engagement point? (As in, does it get noticeably stiff right where it starts catching?)

Is the Flyin' Miata clutch unsuitable for you?

<p>Its 1.8 only.</p>

What he said. Otherwise, i like the FM2, do not enjoy the FM1.

Pedal feels great. Not too heavy but still stiff, the engagement point is pretty positive but it's not like the pedal gets suddenly stiffer like you're describing. The pedal pressure is pretty even throughout the throw, I guess what I mean is that when it grabs it does so with authority, and it's the same every time. I like it.

Also I think you might be able to get a heavy duty pressure plate for the stage 2 in order to increase torque capacity but you would probably have to call Exedy directly to figure that out. I make 111wtq for what it's worth.

Great, thanks for the info. :)

I got the XTG4, im planning to hold 300lb ft in the future, so our needs are a little different. But I havnt driven it yet so I cant give my feedback anyway. plan to today though.

The only other experience I have is with exedy stock replacement and F1 stg 2, they both feel like the mushy stock vagueness, but we already knew that.

You know I like the XTSS pressure plate because it is strong and powerful like a man needs, and I like the clutch disc is smooth, yet tight like a man wants.

No wimpy pedals and no lightswitches, but rather a good proper clutch.

:bowrofl:

Any chance in hell you weighed that before installing?

Can't Wait for 949 Clutch Anymore
 

Just a quality steel pressure plate with good strong diaphragm springs. And a decent material sprung hub clutch. No trickery. Just quality parts made to take a good pounding.

Can't Wait for 949 Clutch Anymore
 

Strong springs mean good clamping.

Just bolted mine in yesterday, you missed it by a day. The pressure plate was balanced, which is a good sign.

For N/A cars, I was a big fan of the 1.6L ACT HD in Thumper. If you want a "sharper" engagement, the XT pressure plate does that, but the HD is the clutch I'd suggest to most people who want a good N/A clutch. Same with the disc - I like sprung discs, but if you value light weight over ease of operation, unsprung pucked is what you want.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised with the 1.8L XT in my '02SE. I was expecting a leg press machine, and it's not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. 300ft.lbs, slips around the parking lot, and ACT reliability.

1.6L ACT clutch kits from Trackspeed

1.8L ACT clutch kits from Trackspeed

1.6 ACT HD crew checking in. Love mine.

Pedal is slightly heavier than stock, engagement is slightly sharper than stock. Plays nice with the 949 flywheel.

Can't Wait for 949 Clutch Anymore
 

XT because you never know when you are going to wake up with more pressure and sticky rubber.

I bought a used ACT XT in 2007ish, have been stuffing all the boost through it ever since. It's never blinked. I wish ACT made turbos, pistons, and transmissions. You can't go wrong with ACT.

Am i right in thinking that an n/a BP is unlikely to shred a 6spd in an inordinate amount of time even with a harsh unsprung disk?

So after having to replace the master and slave, I just got the clutch bled.

My wife was the only one around, I got under the car and bled while she pumped. As soon as I saw the fork start to move, I asked if its too stiff for her :giggle: She replied with an offended tone: "no, why?"

Seriously not sure what people complain about. Its still easier than my DD LGT. Feels nice, much approve.

As soon as I get the nose bolted back on, I can take it for a spin and let you know what I think about the G4

NA BP, I doubt you could break a 6 speed with that.

That's what i'm thinking.

I think i'm going to give the HDR4 a shot.

FWIW ZM1-XTG4

Just drove it around a few miles. Its not as nearly as on/off as people said it was, pedal pressure is fine. Stiff yes, but not difficult or tiring unless you have a knee issue or something. If it weren't for the wear associated with ceramic disc, I would daily. Engagement point moved much closer to the floor in a perfect spot for me without adjusting anything. After 5 minutes, with a shit tune, im driving it like the stock clutch.

Thanks duder!

Going with the HDR4 though. Unsprung #yoloswag en route.

Lemme know when you want to install.
I have a day off on a weekday sometime soon.
I can come down and tear apart your car in the morning if you want.

Tear it apart then leave, right? :giggle:

Lemme see when it'll be here and maybe we can figure this out. Honestly thinking about it, i don't see why this would take longer than 3-4 hours. I've already had the entire thing apart down to the point where all i needed to do was remove some transmission bolts. It's all fresh in my mind and everything has been apart recently. :)

And you can see how big Turbo (Kaia) has gotten. She's a riot haha. Loves Nimbus, the two are inseparable.

Naturally.

I figure i could get a head start. I want to do one for practice. It's been a long time since I've done anything clutch related.
I'd like to mess up yours before I do mine. ;)
I can actually take off almost any day now.

Problem is that i'm daily driving this thing because totaled Cherokee and insurance company dragging feet. Friday early afternoon is the best i can do since i'll need to drive it again on Monday. :giggle:

<p>Sissy, west side ben and I did a clutch job in an evening.</p><p>Hardest part is pulling my downpipe.</p><p>U-joints, wobbles extensions, impact wrench.</p>

Pretty sure i could do it in 4 hours solo. But since that car is all that's keeping me from a no show at work, i should probably be as smart as possible with it. :giggle:

Concealer doesn't believe in impact guns.

This is true, i don't like air tools. They might save me a good 10 minutes on this job, though. :giggle:

<p></p><p>Try an hour lol.</p>

So 3 hours solo then? :giggle:

Those top bolts zip off with an impact.

What top bolts?

Top tranny-engine. You can break them loose with a bent 17mm wrench, but zip everything else off with an impact. Dropping the PPF is super nice too. Remember, the non-shouldered rear bolt goes into both holes, and a strong hit with a sledge pops off the nuts up top, to allow the PPF to slide off the diff.

I really wish you hadn't gone with the un-sprung though. I don't necessarily think it's about breaking a transmission, as it is about wearing it out. Think whining bearings and worn teeth.

if it makes you feel better, I put probably 30,000 miles or so on an unsprung hub (twin plate) clutch with and without turbo and a stock 5 speed in my 01. Car did see track and lots and lots of stop and go insanity. Even with cerametallic plates, tranny was ok. Even when I did copious burnouts for fun to change lanes a little sideways in traffic.

PS these will help you get the top bolts on the trans. Just put the short ones at the socket end and the long ones at the other end and you can reach everything.

http://www.harborfreight.com/9-pc-wo...set-67971.html


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1441117610

Gotcha. I just had this PPF off for the diff swap so it should all come back apart pretty easily. I bet i don't even have to remove it all the way. I was getting some decent swivel action just by loosening everything at the back a little. :)

We'll see if the clutch was a bad choice. Honestly, if i wear out a trans every 2-3 years, it's not a big deal. This car doesn't see huge miles, and never will, and i'd imagine that driving it in traffic might be harder than track days, bro.


Excellent, i have those extensions. :)

I ran unsprung disks in my old Civics with more power and weaker transmissions for years and never really had an issue. MX6 runs an unsprung disc as well without about 5x the torque this motor will ever generate, no issues. Those transmissions are way harder to find than Miata 6spds too. :giggle:

Then next time you find a cheap one, let me know.

I think for your purposes, you should just buy a BP5A dropout from the ebays. Maximum swag. :giggle: You'd end up with pretty much the power i make, plus a little, in a lighter chassis.

Wait do people really completely drop the PPF when changing the clutch? I have always just removed the 2 long 17mm bolts at the trans, and then the 14mm bolts. Then just pushed the ppf off to the side a bit. I have never seen a need to completely remove the ppf.

That's what i did in reverse when i put the PPF back on the trans. On my car doing the diff swap i put the diff under the car with the PPF already attached. Then just moved it all around until it worked. No reason to drop the whole PPF for this job that i can see. I'd also rather not mess with the rear bolts/nuts under the car. They were un-fun enough outside of the car.

<p>What lars said. Just push it to the side.</p><p>I thought it was going to be way harder than it was.</p><p>I dropped and lifted the trans by myself, just needed a helper to spin the driveshaft plug to get the input shaft to line up while I humped the bitch in there.</p><p>I'll take video next time.</p>

Happy Meal? :dunno:

What do you like about the FM2, and dislike about the FM1?

<p></p><p>Yes, the happy meal is 1.8 only.</p><p>Probably not stiff enough. He likes it rock hard....</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>....in the butt</p>

I very specifically said in the first post that i am not interested in 1.8 stuff.

I like the feel of the FM2. It's stiff and has a very positive engagement. Both FM1s i've had feel like i'm sticking my foot into a 5 gallon bucket of spaghetti. With about the same feedback, and the same engagement point travel from the "rim" of the bucket to the "floor" of the bucket.

Moot point, as neither are available in 1.6 flavor.

On a lift, it's just as easy to use the impact to remove the rear 17mm bolts when you do the front, then pry the 30-50 battery cable clips off, and remove the PPF completely. One more thing out of your way, and adds maybe 5 minutes.

<p>Not all of us have fancy smancy shops to work in like you do :)</p>

Yeah i'll be doing this on my back on jack stands. I had a bad experience with PPF hardware about... 5 weeks ago. I don't feel like repeating that, or even taking the chance of repeating that. :giggle:

Wrecked 'em.

I hope he took my counsel on which one was stiff.

What you're saying is, you want to retain the OEM 1.6 flywheel?

He is going to use a lightweight 1.6 flywheel. All the FM setups require you to goto a 1.8 flywheel of some sort.

No, i have a 2000.

I want to use a lightweight 1.6 flywheel and the lighter and smaller diameter clutch that goes with it for lower inertia, faster revs, and a more fulfilling lifestyle.

Can't Wait for 949 Clutch Anymore
 

FTFY

Uh oh. Is this going to make my car uncomfortable or not so great on the street?

Can't Wait for 949 Clutch Anymore
 

No. It can increase the momentary stresses on the transmission gear teeth. The crankshaft rotation speed is always trying to change, even if you are traveling at a steady speed. Power comes in pulses that are evened out and steadied by the rotating mass. Speed up, slow down, speed up, etc. The crank twists and flexes between the throws every time a pulse acts upon it, too. Reduction in flywheel mass increases the variation in speed of rotation instead of storing some of the pulse energy to then release it between pulses to reduce the slowing effect. Additionally, you selected an unsprung clutch, which also will not offer any impulse absorption or release. The only place to absorb the variations in impulse energy is within the gear lash tolerances of the transmission and differential, and with whatever twisting and flexing occurs in the shafts and driveline. It isn't a really big deal with components that can handle the forces but our transmissions have proven to be marginal when pushed. Some say the stock oil pump failures are related to the lack of smoothness in our engines, exacerbated by increasing the severity of the pulses by increasing the power or by reducing the rotating mass.

Gotcha.

Still not worried. 6spd + n/a BP = whatevs. :giggle:

Can't Wait for 949 Clutch Anymore
 

True. If N/A you can go as light weight as you can to not be dog slow.