do I want 10/7 Tein Flex or 550/350 FCM?
 

yes...I posted this on m.net, but of course you guys are the ones I love, and the most attractive men in the interweb...


I've spoken to Shaikh and I'm leaning his direction...but I've driven one session in a car with those rates and Flex and at least know what I'm getting there.

I track my car about once per month, it makes 261whp/252wtq (dynodynamics), has 15x9's w/r-comps for the track, and I still drive it on the street when its nice out. Although I may do some time attack in the future, its basically a track day "battle" car because we all have something to prove before we waste away in an office on monday morning.

I will corner weight the car, remove the rear sway bar, and play with tire pressures if necessary, but...

Basically, the things that turn me on about Flex that don't about FCM are a short, but important list:
1) ability to pre-load
2) adjustability to dial oversteer in or out
3) 30-minutes of seat time in a Flex car with similar bracing

and the things I like about FCM:
a) dampers will probably last forever!!!!!
b) exact, perfect damping from the start

If the car is doing something I don't like, and a click on the dampers will fix it...I'm going to be a little upset.

Anyway, does anyone have input on a comparison? I think I'll be happy with both, but want the best I can get for the money.

you pre-op trannies better start answering my questions, or I'm going to cry. Robispec is back in the mix now.

I can't help you with comparison.....as I am a broke bastid.
Spring rates and some fiddlin' with the settings have netted some fun times and fast lap times in NA trim for me.
I would def. be up some 10/7 spring rates.....and granted they don't last forever, rebuilds are quite nice with the Flexes.
When you get your SPM "super pursuit mode" set up..... I will gladly take your throw aways. ;)
I think you might need to talk Emilio and look into his newest line of dampers.
That would be the route to go...... just a thought.

I want to stay around $1500, not $2k. Besides, I'm trying to give TDR some monies too.

If you're interested we can work something out. I'm trying to unload the springs, perches, shocks, stops, mounts, and sway-bar.

I'd keep a small rear bar on there if I were you. I don't know if you can get a ride in an FCM car but I'd try if I were you. Teins on a smooth surface are wonderful. On a track they're great. On bad roads 9/6 makes me want to cry.

When I was down in TN last year I forgot how stiff my suspension was. By the time I was going through PA I remembered. I don't know what your roads are like in TX but it's something to consider if you drive it on the street alot.

On a lot of the roads around NY I can't just slam on the gas because I'm just going to have the rear end skipping over potholes and ripples and cracks in the road. I already have traction issues in first and second but this makes it rediculous.

I've "heard" (for what that's worth) that the FCM setup is better over uneven surfaces.

edit: How soon are you looking to install something?

now-ish. I want to be done working on this car so I can get back to pimpin hizzos on the non-stop.

I have 2 "absolutely must be ready to to kill" track days with the first in late may and another June at Hallett for NASA TT.

I planned on dealing with what I have now but I want to be competitive out there.

FCM with adjustable perches. Flex are travel-short in the rear.

and your awesome track sessions may require you to get frequent rebuilds and with FCM, you have that option as a known quantity. or if you want just a little more hizzy-bazizzy in the mid speed damping, you can get it from Shaikh.

is curbing really that much more extreme than daily driving? The bilsteins really turn me on because they last forever...but does that cross over with FCM products?

I talked to Shaikh on the phone extensively, and he dazzled me with something...but I don't have any seat time with them and around these parts Tein Flex are the gospel...and they have the lap times to back it up.

I see Johnwag's car as the achievable bench-mark. It was really easy to drive, I could do things with it in just one session that I couldn't do with mine, and its way comfy enough on the street with his tein stuffs. Give me his car with my motor and I'm done. Now...can it get better with the FCM shit, or will I regret the purchase when I want more valve in the front or rear...and will they pull on me in the corners?

Let's swap cars for a session......this will make more of a definitive decision for you. And for the record, my car is WAY more stiffa than WaggerZ, just not as cool...... ;)

...says the man with a cage. I can't go the cage route, but I have a guy to put door bars in it who does good work.

Off topic......but I've sourced a 10 ton press and a "old" dirt tracker that wants to build the "Lemons" cage for peanuts. I will be visiting his shop come Monday. Hold off on your "purchase" for the door bars. I will make you a pair with left over stock. PM or e-mail with placement of front plate and we will make it so Captain.

shaikh will revalve for you. what's the problem?

/\ The "operator" :giggle:

lack of adjustability, pre-load, and spherical bearings

i have 9k/6k on my flex and i love them. Not TOO harsh on the street but they dont feel like stock either.. On track they are great, they outdrive my skills by far. Savington can compare my flex to his koni race w/ ground control setup, But i cannot compare them to any of shaikhs products. However on the 21st and 22nd ill be at Laguna Seca with tons of other miatas and im sure someone there will have a FCM setup on there car. Ill let you know if you haven't decided by then.

I'll wait for this. My buddies are going out there to watch...after they do the skip barber school. I'll ask them to check the shit out and ask around for me. I want to make this decision once.

fcm gets my vote

No kidding.....shocks to me have been like others trying to find that exhaust note they like. May take several setups to get what YOU are after.

I initially chose my 9/6 Flex because they were readily available...and I'd already sold my Billies. I'd also had good luck with 7/6 Flex on the NA.
They ride fine on the streets around me without being overly harsh at all. Very user-friendly in that regard. Like you said, they're gospel in these parts, and that's what our local parts slinger carries and endorses, so whatever.

While it might be a spendy idea, why not grab a set of each, set them up as close to identical as possible while off the car, then swap them out after a couple of sessions? Whichever you like less can certainly be sold off in short order to recoup (most of) the cost. If nothing else, it would make a great comparo write-up for anyone else comparing the same two options.

Since you mention Robispec (and since he's now local to your legal address), have to talked to Matt on this subject? I'm sure his input would be voluminous at minimum considering the number of setups he's tried out on his time attack car.

Shaikh says my 550/350 adjustable set should be done this week so hopefully I can get together with Nick (and maybe Andrew as well) and we can do a little comparison in the near future.


Your 3 concerns: can all be solved by Shaikh except the preload/body adjuster which I personally believe is a bandaid fix when you need more spring rate. The adjustable shock body length also adds weight which is never good.

I did all the research I could, talked to everyone who had an opinion and decided the FCM's would be the best for the money.

One of your pluses for Bilsteins I can also personally vouch for. I had a DD/track car that had 160K miles and innumerable autocrosses and track days on the same set of shocks. When a friend of mine who I sold the car to had the shocks rebuilt just because he couldn't believe they could be right with that many miles on them, the car worked and felt no different it just had nicer looking shocks. I've also had sets on 4 additional cars that were street and track driven with no issues (as well as a motorhome I owned). Bilsteins are DAMN stout.

We've spoken about this extensively and talked about a few different things. Reality is a real bitch though. After all the #'s and skilled suspension tuning and adjustment that I can neither afford nor have access too, a lot of it comes down to personal preference. There's also the interesting dynamic of separating personal preference and fact from a driver deemed "skilled enough" to get a paycheck for driving, when I'm an amateur with very little experience in comparison and no formal instruction.

Right now I'm leaning away from Tein because I can't seem to get anyone to tell me if I can get one replacement shock or not. If my car were on jackstands right now with another blown shock, I'd be really pissed off if a shock weren't in the mail.

I'd love to hear about the comparison. I agree with you on the Bilstein longevity. Should I expect the same longevity out of FCM shocks as the standard Bilsteins? I wish I had gotten in on the adjustable group buy.

Its starting to dawn on me that I will have to compromise somewhere...do I want to compromise on lap times, adjustability, or maintenance?

Here's how I understand the 'single shock from Tein' scenario, since I've only run across it once...secondhand. If you irreparably damage one damper, it can be replaced. However, from what I gather, Tein will need some kind of proof, such as a photo of the damper in a jacked up car.
This isn't from personal experience, obviously. Someone on cr.net was selling a set of three, and folks asked why.
Now, if we're just looking at blown shocks, I don't know if they'll work with you by cross-shipping. Called Tein yet? 562-861-9161

This is exactly what I want to avoid. I had an incident with a trailer and a curb a couple years ago...I ordered one shock and it was fixed in a week with a $80 purchase. Its starting to look like it could be a $1600 problem if I had Tein on the car.
I called tein and they told me to call a dealer. I emailed dealers and they are all awaiting responses for over 3-weeks now. I think I may be "over it."

hustler. I tell you what. you buy the bilsteins with adjustable perches and spring rates you want and try them. and if you dont like them, I'll trade you straight up for my TEIN flex and EDFC so you can try them. i only run 7/6 though.

Really? I might be will to give it a shot then. I'm going to talk to Robi this week and see what's up though. I'll keep you in the loop.

Can you buy just "one" 6UL? Seems you would be in the same boat as the shocks, and the wheel would most likely be the first thing damaged.

I guessss.. but they better have awesome NB top hats or it wont do me much good. I think Shaikh can do NB top hats no sweat.

btw, you're not going to be in any "class" are you? just track slut?

why couldn't you... I bought five.

Sweet....had no idea. :)

If I go with FCM, I will get the total package.

I'll be classed in some NASA TT deal, but its not like I have a shot of actually contending for a trophy or whatever. Its a track pig with a radio and carpet, but my friends and I are really competitive though.

I'm really feeling the FCM shit right now...tired of spending money. I'm considering even keeping my current springs and perches and running FCM stuff everywhere else. i still need to replace the 18-year old balljoints and tie rods (scary) and probably should get poly bushings. 20-year old rubbers aren't helping any, and another link in the chain to making this a "new" car.

Anyone know the difference between the FCM and FM rear shock mounts? I have the FM mounts currently but the Sheik said to run his.

FM are a total redesign with spherical bearing--and only fit the rear. FCM are similar to NB and use NB parts.

not sure why you couldn't go to both those websites yourself though...

Flyin' Miata : Chassis : Suspension : 1990-97 Flyin` Miata rear shock mounts

Fat Cat Motorsports - Bilstein products - Miata - 90-97

I think Shaikh will still make you adjustables... I only ordered mine 2 weeks ago and they're adjustable. Ask him.

+1 for keeping what parts you have and just doing the shocks. Maybe upping the spring rates.

Definetely replace worn joints and old rubber. Extra movement and give will only be exagerated by the sticky rubber and extra power. Isn't it fun how the improvements never end!?! It's a continuous cycle. Improve one thing then you go into a spiral of money and time sucking projects bringing everything else up to that level. It's tough to say "gee I'm happy with more power, I'll just leave the rest well enough alone".

I asked because it looks like they do the same fucking thing.

pretty much yah.

I just installed my 9/6 flexes and Hyperflex bushings this weekend (bushing job is a total PITA, fair warning). I have a set of lower balljoints and R-package tie rod ends in the mail right now (I'm doing my part to put Emilio's kids through college. heh). Next weekend I'm going to replace the balljoints and tierods and put new boots on my upper balljoints ($250 x2 for upper balljoints and control arms = no go; mine aren't bad, just split open). After that, it's alignment time and I'll give you my impressions after all is said and done.

Well after talking to Shaikh today it appears one of his suppliers is having issues so no coilovers for Laguna week after next. Soon as I get them in I'll report back.

right now its raining outside...so I'm feeling the FCM option.

tein mono's are now in the mix. hmmm

I know of a set of Flexes that could be had for trade for some "say 6ULs" ;)

orly? nickel, black, or bronze?

Bronze.....wouldn't have it any other way. ;)

no-deal.

He he....I figured as much. :loser:

You better pray to whatever god you've chosen that when I get back to Dallas I don't crush your fucking skull. I've been free fighting chinamen here in Bangkok for the last 6-munce and it will take nothing short of a god damn disney-miracle to keep my shin from crushing your trachea if you EVER direct the "loser" smiley at me again.

anyone make an observation or two at the miata challenge? I'm still looking at tein monoflex and FCM. I think Robispec may be a little more expensive than I want to get into, and tough to replace if I wreck it...but still on the table.

i bought twin tube flex with swift 550/350 springs because I'm the shit and fuck tons of bitches.

Damn. I figured you'd have snapped up those 6 month old Ohlins for sale.

...no ever check out ISC top mounts?

monotubes are way baller-er

emilio says they twins are better at the rates I wanted, and I only paid $1300 for what I scored off my buddy's new-ish track car. Its hard to argue with that price.

you must be running weenie light rates then

heh
heh
heh

ok srsly tho, run them at like near-soft for a while.

Did you happen to get Wag's set? I think he's goin' for mono's!

Nah, I think William bought John's shit. I bought Gary's old set. I couldn't pass up that price. If there isn't enough valve, I send them in for revalving. I wanted quick and easy, plus it saved me about $800 over doing mono w/springs.

I'm all about this new goal of actually getting on the track, rather than engineering. Making it through a track day without popping the motor is my new goal.

I haven't been on the track in almost two years. I want to run TDR@MSR, Miatas at Hallett, and maybe one more event over the summer. I hope I can get my ducks in a row in time.

That's right....
I just bartered a deal here recently, so looks as if I will make an appearance to the TDR@MSR. ;)

Oh man, there's going to be so fucked-up convo's going on between you, I, john, and my sister. Bring the pain.

I have no conscience to the evils within...... ;)

Good call for grabbing the deal. Keep us posted on how you like your new setup on the track. What exactly do you run now?

I think I will grow out of my current GC 375f/250r with COTS Bilstein B6s. I think I will run out spring rate with my R888s on the track and that will put me towards a revalve I think.