Its so easy that they don't include instructions...because you don't need them. Its Mr. Potato head. I left mine on top of the carpet and drilled the first hole from the top, then guessed at the bottom holes and it worked the first time, everytime...unlike Panther cologne.

I don't know if it stiffens the body more than FM rails, but geometry is on the door-bar's side. A few posts above and you'll find this answer.

I get weird noises through the car now, especially with the poly rear-end bushings. The R&P noise resonates a bit more now, but that's expected.

Now I need to weld little tabs on my 1.6 rear subframe so I can attach the beatrush bar. I'm still toying with the idea of strengthening the PPF too because I know that poor little guy if not twisting, will eventually fail from fatigue.

Do it and report back. I have always wondered how much strengthening the PPF helped but have never seen anyone actual do it and report results.

Look at my build thread for some door bar pics.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t36266/

+1 door bars more dramatic improvement than the butterfly.

After the door bars I changed my mind about replacing the miata with a Stook or a Boxster due to the wet noodle chassis shudder.

So is there anyone out there that still doubts the effectiveness of the door bar approach?
Forget about the safety arguement; even if it is an issue, my Momo buckets are taking care of that.

can someone post non-shitty pictures of them installed?

Here ya go.

Suspension

Loving this thread. Moving into my first house on Dec 18 and then the 6 pt roll bar and frame rails are going on (and the new suspension).

Already answered. Yes. The only reason I know of to get rails instead of door bars, especially if you already have a roll bar, is that some do not like having door bars in the cab for whatever reason. There is a long discussion about it at miata.net. Otherwise, considering the cost/stiffness ratio and the weight/stiffness ratio, the door bar is better IMO.

Some more door bar pictures here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t37096-2/

great
thanx

Nascar bars or bust!

Sounds like I can pull my FM frame rails and sell em when my door bars show up! They did exactly zip for stiffening that I could tell. The shock tower brace was a more noticable change that the fm rails.

Really? I think that's the first time I've seen someone say the frame rails didn't make a noticeable difference.

I already had an HD roll bar in and a triangle shock tower brace. The rails really didn't make a noticeable difference in driving feel. There is a difference when jacking the car up so I know they work but it wasn't significant enough for me to tell on the road. The strut brace was an bigger change.

Of course my wife accuses me of being insensitive. I guess this could apply to my driving too. :giggle:

I would consider leaving them in since they will save your stock rails from speedbump induced bashing especially if your suspension is lowered.

Nice to see you're bolting more stuff on. However front wheel lifting is hardly from a floppy chassis me thinks.

Still, full cage > door bars.

You can feel the body twist in 3rd gear, on the loud pedal. This car is very old.

I had no clue that a 15-point cage was more rigid than door bars. Thanks for the enlightenment. lol

Full cage = death in a street car! It's a consideration only for track cars in my book unless you dress like the Stig to go to the grocery store.

Damn you trendy fuckin' bastards.

When I had expendable cash to spend on chassis stiffening everyone said frame rails were the way to go, and some of ya'll even talked me OUT of door bars.

Don't get me wrong, I love my frame rails...but now I'm gonna HAVE to get door bars as well. I'm going to stop listening to you guys before end up broke (and divorced).