EBC Green stuff fade very quickly
 

Hi guys,

my friend bought the Turbo Groove Discs & Greenstuff Pads for his 1.8 NB, however shortly afterwards we noticed they last just a few turns with intense braking and then fade for a minute or two with very poor braking performance. I know they are not meant for hard driving, but even the OEM(ish) pads he had before lasted several times longer before starting to fade.

He has a 5.1 brake fluid and we already tried to bleed it for any possible air trapped in the lines, so that should not be the cause. With these Greenstuffs I was able to feel the severe fade in just one long high speed braking attempt, which is pretty crazy by any standards. Any ideas what could be the issue or what should we try?

Thank you.

they are MUCH better than Hawk HPS or OE.

I'f youre driving like an asshole, you can ruin almost any pad. When I was tuning a 300rwhp miata, I was fading Hawk HP+ pads like it was nothing. A lot of guys run those on miata race cars...

EBC yellows are the better pad. Why 5.1 fluid? Good dot 4 is enough.

Did you or your friend bed in the brakes?

EBC anystuff is just a hair better than pressed Cow Dung (i.e. BS-pads).
There are sooo many better options.

I would not call it simple fading, they normally transform into charcoal and disintegrate.

They are pretty good at marketing and availability though....

No no. Don't mistake hp+ for a race pad.

I have HPS and they last 10x longer than his GS. He has no power adders, so he was expecting the GS to be able to handle those 140 horses for at least a few minutes, but did not happen.

He wanted to eliminate all possible causes of that bad braking performance, so we could be sure it's the pads.

I hope so, I wasn't there when he installed them. He did let me know about the bad braking performance only later, he already covered at least 1000km with them on car. We might try to bed them in again.

You could waste your time trying to bed them in again, or you could replace the pads with literally anything else. Your choice.

then you did something wrong.

HPS couldnt handle my car at 170rwhp (or stock). the greenstuff could.


the HPS are so bad I'd almost reccomend $10 duralast pads over them.

ebc's are the devil.

Well, it seems like the only remaining option. I just wanted to ask around in case anyone had similar experience with them. Thanks for everyone's opinion.

It's interesting to see how the experiences with same thing vary from car to car (or better say, per use case). But I don't do any track driving with them, so that might be the reason :)

correct.

i always hated the HPSs, then i did a track day. i was still just at like 160rwhp and like 140tq. the first stop after the first 1/2 straight and i almost went into the wall.

i had to go park and waste my first session.

i was able to secure some greenstuff pads and they lasted the rest of the weekend.


I did try redstuff and I ate througa brand new set in one weekend on the track, same low power.

HP+ were nice for the street, but loud. I'm a big fan of ULTs (or whatever they are called today).

you would love a set of hp+

From what I hear, today's available equivalent appears to be the StopTech Street Performance. In my opinion, they're an excellent street compromise pad for the money. At stock power, at noobish skill levels, I'm unable to fade them during 20 minute lapping sessions. They work decent cold, work better with some heat in them, are dead quiet, dust moderately, and are dirt cheap from Rock Auto. I have a few hours of lapping and 10k street miles on mine and they're still happy.

The only possible gripes I have is that I don't think they have the highest friction coefficient, but not bad, either. If you're a man, they deliver the goods as long as you shove the pedal. The other thing is that they seem to lose their transfer layer over time if you're just puttering around on them. Do a hard stop every once in a while and make sure to bed them in as per instructions after installing.

right, but hawk HP+ are tried and true. for an autocross pad i'll pick them over the PFC.10 compound. and you know how much i rave about PFC.

I am not sure about the GreenStuff pads, I think they are not really intended for track usage. I thought the general consensus w.r.t. EBC pads was to either use YellowStuff or another brand altogether if you are serious about your brake pads.

As for the Hawk HPS pads: I had good experience with them on my Civic EK hatch. Stood up 20 min track sessions with 140hp without issue, no fading only a lot of dust. They were gently on my rotors too; so I was actually thinking about ordering a set of HPS pads for my IS200 too.

the hp+ and hps shouldn't be used for track use. the max temperature for both is under 1000* very easy to cook them. jump up to PFC's or at a minamum try the dtc30.

EBC shouldn't be used by anyone ever unless you really like fake flame stickers and glow in the dark skull shifters.

This is a nice brake pad comparison of the Yellows and Hawks.

Performance Brake Pads Compared: Hawk HPS, Hawk HP Plus, EBC Yellowstuff | Car and Driver Blog







https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451995311

so with yellows you get an extreme (75%) increase with Tq at 600*-900*. have fun trying to modulate that when entering a turn.
if hawk's chart is to be believed. the dtc 70 has a 25% change in tq and that's still crap. PFC and padgid have a 4% change in torque from 300*-1400*. so all this chart should tell you is that EBC's are garbage and should be thrown away.

I don't know if that is the case with the yellows. In the link I posted. Performance Brake Pads Compared: Hawk HPS, Hawk HP Plus, EBC Yellowstuff | Car and Driver Blog The distances shortened as the pads got heat in them it but they stayed pretty consistent once warm after stop 6. They went from 100-0 with a mile in between stops. Most of Wilwoods graphs look similar for the Polymatrix race pads. I have never had a problem with their pads.

are the pads producing Tq at elevated heat ranges, yes. Calming "I never had a problem" is infuriating to me. because you are suggesting that the EBC's should be fine. but if you have these pads you will have an incredible Tq rise with heat. in all of my years as a brake guy i have never seen a 75% torq rise, little alone over 400*. when you are in a braking zone, trying to use 100% of your tires ( and not a percent more), checking your mirrors, monitoring other cars (my point is) with EBC you'll need to add another step and monitor your heat Torqe rise. while the people around you will not be doing that. that will cost you time. a 75% torque increase can cost you a set of tires, your a car, or your life. brake pads are a get what you pay for, don't cheap out.


i also hate it when auto journalists do brake tests. they couldn't do a brake test correctly to save their lives. i digress.

Don't be infuriated. I am just saying that Wilwood race pads have a similar torque increase with temps as the Yellows. Yes, as they get hot they bite more but this comes up as tire temps do. As you know this is how race pads are and for anyone that has had brake fade on stock pads will know, once you get a few laps, they get hot and stay hot. I don't know how accurate EBC's graph is but the magazine test looks pretty legit. Much more than many of the" I don't like pad X" posts that is seen in a lot with not much to back it up. Car magazines test cars for a living. Their tests seemed pretty legit. I have never run EBC and am not claiming they are good, great ect. I am just playing devils advocat as I have run Wilwoods with similar graphs and I know first hand that work they work. In the magazine article they got them pretty hot and didn't seem to have any trouble modulating them.

How We Tested: Each set of front and rear brake pads was paired with a set of new discs from -Mazda. Using dealer-supplied fluid, we bled the braking system [see “How  To,” August 2011] after every change. All the pads underwent a break-in process consisting of  15  0.5-g stops from 60 mph at approximately one-mile intervals. Our procedure included a five-stop -cycle consisting of one 0.5-g stop and four all-out -panic stops from 100 mph. The cycle was performed nine times to gauge the pads’ fade resistance. In addition to the usual speed and deceleration data, our Racelogic VBOX III logger recorded brake-pedal travel and force information. The 100-to-0-mph distance graph is the average of the four panic stops per cycle; the force and travel graphs show the 0.5-g stop at the beginning of each cycle. It’s important to note that upgrading a -vehicle’s brake pads doesn’t automatically result in shorter stopping distances because performance is -ultimately limited by available tire grip.

The rise of torque on the EBC yellow pads is interesting. I can attest that they have some bite. I had Yellows in conjunction with 1.6 rotors and calipers. My co-driver entered a braking zone at Nelson Ledges too hot and slammed on the brakes. He flat spotted a set of Yoke AD08's.

I changed to Cobalt XR3 and found the cold bite higher than the Yellows. They seem easy to drive.

I'd call BS on that EBC graph, regardless of its source.
But aside from that, Just as equally as worrying as the drastic torque fluctuation which that graph suggests is the notion of a "race" pad that doesn't tell you what it does above 900 degrees. That's like a dyno graph that only goes to 4500 rpm.

i tried green, red amd yellow over the years. I had enough power and fade resistance with the yellow on my lightened turbo na. But once i was on slicks with aero, they just wouldn't last that long. I went to Carbotechs and they are 100x better. Just a little noisy when cold. And they last almost the entire race season. 6 weekends and i change them out when they get 50% worn.