EBC Green stuff fade very quickly - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-28-2015, 05:17 AM   #1
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bratislava
Posts: 58
Total Cats: 1
Unhappy EBC Green stuff fade very quickly

Hi guys,

my friend bought the Turbo Groove Discs & Greenstuff Pads for his 1.8 NB, however shortly afterwards we noticed they last just a few turns with intense braking and then fade for a minute or two with very poor braking performance. I know they are not meant for hard driving, but even the OEM(ish) pads he had before lasted several times longer before starting to fade.

He has a 5.1 brake fluid and we already tried to bleed it for any possible air trapped in the lines, so that should not be the cause. With these Greenstuffs I was able to feel the severe fade in just one long high speed braking attempt, which is pretty crazy by any standards. Any ideas what could be the issue or what should we try?

Thank you.
whisper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 08:39 AM   #2
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

they are MUCH better than Hawk HPS or OE.

I'f youre driving like an *******, you can ruin almost any pad. When I was tuning a 300rwhp miata, I was fading Hawk HP+ pads like it was nothing. A lot of guys run those on miata race cars...
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 11:16 AM   #3
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 951
Total Cats: -252
Default

EBC yellows are the better pad. Why 5.1 fluid? Good dot 4 is enough.
wannafbody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 01:10 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 194
Total Cats: 28
Default

Did you or your friend bed in the brakes?
TalkingPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 01:32 PM   #5
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

EBC anystuff is just a hair better than pressed Cow Dung (i.e. BS-pads).
There are sooo many better options.

I would not call it simple fading, they normally transform into charcoal and disintegrate.

They are pretty good at marketing and availability though....
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 01:39 PM   #6
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
they are MUCH better than Hawk HPS or OE.

I'f youre driving like an *******, you can ruin almost any pad. When I was tuning a 300rwhp miata, I was fading Hawk HP+ pads like it was nothing. A lot of guys run those on miata race cars...
No no. Don't mistake hp+ for a race pad.
stormin'norman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 02:06 PM   #7
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bratislava
Posts: 58
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
they are MUCH better than Hawk HPS or OE.

I'f youre driving like an [email protected]#$%^&*, you can ruin almost any pad. When I was tuning a 300rwhp miata, I was fading Hawk HP+ pads like it was nothing. A lot of guys run those on miata race cars...
I have HPS and they last 10x longer than his GS. He has no power adders, so he was expecting the GS to be able to handle those 140 horses for at least a few minutes, but did not happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
EBC yellows are the better pad. Why 5.1 fluid? Good dot 4 is enough.
He wanted to eliminate all possible causes of that bad braking performance, so we could be sure it's the pads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingPie View Post
Did you or your friend bed in the brakes?
I hope so, I wasn't there when he installed them. He did let me know about the bad braking performance only later, he already covered at least 1000km with them on car. We might try to bed them in again.
whisper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 02:49 PM   #8
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,365
Total Cats: 1,326
Default

You could waste your time trying to bed them in again, or you could replace the pads with literally anything else. Your choice.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 02:53 PM   #9
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whisper View Post
I have HPS and they last 10x longer than his GS. He has no power adders, so he was expecting the GS to be able to handle those 140 horses for at least a few minutes, but did not happen.
then you did something wrong.

HPS couldnt handle my car at 170rwhp (or stock). the greenstuff could.


the HPS are so bad I'd almost reccomend $10 duralast pads over them.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 03:37 PM   #10
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

ebc's are the devil.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 04:03 PM   #11
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bratislava
Posts: 58
Total Cats: 1
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
You could waste your time trying to bed them in again, or you could replace the pads with literally anything else. Your choice.
Well, it seems like the only remaining option. I just wanted to ask around in case anyone had similar experience with them. Thanks for everyone's opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
the HPS are so bad I'd almost reccomend $10 duralast pads over them.
It's interesting to see how the experiences with same thing vary from car to car (or better say, per use case). But I don't do any track driving with them, so that might be the reason
whisper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 04:25 PM   #12
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

correct.

i always hated the HPSs, then i did a track day. i was still just at like 160rwhp and like 140tq. the first stop after the first 1/2 straight and i almost went into the wall.

i had to go park and waste my first session.

i was able to secure some greenstuff pads and they lasted the rest of the weekend.


I did try redstuff and I ate througa brand new set in one weekend on the track, same low power.

HP+ were nice for the street, but loud. I'm a big fan of ULTs (or whatever they are called today).
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 08:12 PM   #13
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

you would love a set of hp+
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 11:48 AM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 194
Total Cats: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I'm a big fan of ULTs (or whatever they are called today).
From what I hear, today's available equivalent appears to be the StopTech Street Performance. In my opinion, they're an excellent street compromise pad for the money. At stock power, at noobish skill levels, I'm unable to fade them during 20 minute lapping sessions. They work decent cold, work better with some heat in them, are dead quiet, dust moderately, and are dirt cheap from Rock Auto. I have a few hours of lapping and 10k street miles on mine and they're still happy.

The only possible gripes I have is that I don't think they have the highest friction coefficient, but not bad, either. If you're a man, they deliver the goods as long as you shove the pedal. The other thing is that they seem to lose their transfer layer over time if you're just puttering around on them. Do a hard stop every once in a while and make sure to bed them in as per instructions after installing.
TalkingPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 12:42 PM   #15
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

right, but hawk HP+ are tried and true. for an autocross pad i'll pick them over the PFC.10 compound. and you know how much i rave about PFC.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 01:18 PM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whisper View Post
It's interesting to see how the experiences with same thing vary from car to car (or better say, per use case). But I don't do any track driving with them, so that might be the reason
I am not sure about the GreenStuff pads, I think they are not really intended for track usage. I thought the general consensus w.r.t. EBC pads was to either use YellowStuff or another brand altogether if you are serious about your brake pads.

As for the Hawk HPS pads: I had good experience with them on my Civic EK hatch. Stood up 20 min track sessions with 140hp without issue, no fading only a lot of dust. They were gently on my rotors too; so I was actually thinking about ordering a set of HPS pads for my IS200 too.
DaWaN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 02:51 PM   #17
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaWaN View Post
I am not sure about the GreenStuff pads, I think they are not really intended for track usage. I thought the general consensus w.r.t. EBC pads was to either use YellowStuff or another brand altogether if you are serious about your brake pads.

As for the Hawk HPS pads: I had good experience with them on my Civic EK hatch. Stood up 20 min track sessions with 140hp without issue, no fading only a lot of dust. They were gently on my rotors too; so I was actually thinking about ordering a set of HPS pads for my IS200 too.
the hp+ and hps shouldn't be used for track use. the max temperature for both is under 1000* very easy to cook them. jump up to PFC's or at a minamum try the dtc30.

EBC shouldn't be used by anyone ever unless you really like fake flame stickers and glow in the dark skull shifters.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 08:01 AM   #18
Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Phoenix Az
Posts: 13
Total Cats: 0
Default

This is a nice brake pad comparison of the Yellows and Hawks.

Performance Brake Pads Compared: Hawk HPS, Hawk HP Plus, EBC Yellowstuff | Car and Driver Blog







Attached Thumbnails
EBC Green stuff fade very quickly-80-45242d1112227726_ebc_yellowstuff_r_pads_ebccomparisonchart_ecdb56e5b91b64be4d4e19d0838c141dd1.gif  
Clifton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 08:02 AM   #19
Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Phoenix Az
Posts: 13
Total Cats: 0
Default

Attached Thumbnails
EBC Green stuff fade very quickly-80-compound_20graph_537599ba61561a3fb0d9cf497c9e885a0806fee9.jpg  
Clifton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 11:00 AM   #20
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
This is a nice brake pad comparison of the Yellows and Hawks.

Performance Brake Pads Compared: Hawk HPS, Hawk HP Plus, EBC Yellowstuff | Car and Driver Blog







so with yellows you get an extreme (75%) increase with Tq at 600*-900*. have fun trying to modulate that when entering a turn.
if hawk's chart is to be believed. the dtc 70 has a 25% change in tq and that's still crap. PFC and padgid have a 4% change in torque from 300*-1400*. so all this chart should tell you is that EBC's are garbage and should be thrown away.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1.8 valve cover with exposed cam gears Hahnlsquid Miata parts for sale/trade 4 12-29-2015 04:40 PM
MS3BASIC output issues 240_to_miata MEGAsquirt 8 12-27-2015 04:08 PM
New: Schroth Racing shoulder pads for racing hardnesses. Black & Silver. Brak Miata parts for sale/trade 0 12-26-2015 01:14 AM
SR20 T25 Turbo Bodhimeister Miata parts for sale/trade 4 12-24-2015 06:49 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:50 PM.