poormxdad

Gentlemen,

I have been experimenting to find a decent performing brake pad on the track that doesn't disintegrate on the street. I'm trying to find a pad I can commute to and from HPDEs with, but please just concentrate on my question.

I have two sets of EBC Yellow Front Sport brake pads. One is in the 12-12.5mm overall thickness range. The other is 11.5-12.mm. I want to take these pads and the dedicated set of rotors to a one day HPDE and use 'em up.

Is 12.5mm overall thickness enough to start a track day? I don't want to do anything unsafe. Either I use them for this one event, or they're already done, but I don't expect to get any more out of them.

Thanks,

Steve Dallas

By "overall thickness," do you mean including backing plate or friction material alone? If the measurements you give include the backing plate, I would have to measure some pads to be able to give any advice. Short of doing that, the rules of thumb for front pads, as I know them, are the following:

1. If you are not ducted, you can safely drive one more track day, when the friction material thickness reaches 50%
2. If you are ducted, you can drive on a set of pads, until the friction material reaches 25%

YMMV. Obviously, it is ultimately up to you to decide what to do to keep yourself and others safe.

That was really of no help, wasn't it?

poormxdad

Certainly helpful. Good stuff. Thanks much.

A new pad is 14mm overall including the backing plate. The plate itself is 6mm, so 8mm of material. 50% of the pad would be 6mm + 4mm = 10mm overall, and I'm at ~12mm. Plus, she's ducted, so I have plenty of pad to start with, according to your rule of thumb. The Yellows do not last, but they're fairly cheap and do perform pretty well on a lower speed track when the main requirement is being able to drive with them to and from the event.

hornetball

iTrader: (4)

Are you seriously asking us if it is safe to drive a pad that is at 75%?!?

Given Generation Wuss . . . what are the pad's pronouns? That seems to be a more pertinent question.

poormxdad

It was really an honest question, but specifically directed to someone with EBC Yellow experience. I have these two sets of Yellows because I used up 25% of the first set in one weekend and I relegated it to spare status. The second set is at my idea of spares for these pads. But, they did what they were supposed to do, so no complaints. I'm not concerned about pad life so much for this particular application--no pad change at the track--I just wish I could accurately predict their demise.

Right now, I use Bridgestone RE-71Rs for the commute, wet track time, and when I don't want to drag the Harbor Freight trailer with NT01s to the track. IF I plan dry track time with the -71Rs, that's when I've been using the Yellows. No tire or front brake pad changing, a much smaller logistics footprint. When I want to bring my trailer and switch to NT01s, I use StopTech Street Performance for the commute and wet track time, and ST43s for the dry, with dedicated rotors. It's a surprisingly good combo that's easy on rotors, THEY LAST, and the Sport-sized ST43s stop like the hand of god. I have XP8s out back and a Wilwood proportioning valve. When I switch to the ST43s, I go two-and-a-quarter turns toward rear bias. I use XP8s out back for everything.

The Yellows-dedicated rotors are not suitable as spares for the other setup. I thought I'd use up these Yellows and the rotors at this one day event, and the next time I don't want to bring the trailer to a tighter track like Summit Point Shenandoah or Jefferson, I'd use the StopTechs on a dry track. If someone with experience had chimed in that the Yellows went to **** in short order after getting below XXmm, I would just revert to the StopTech plan.

Steve Dallas

Why wouldn't you just use XP10s in front for everything but a wet track or high TW tire? Their heat range is such, that you can drive them on the street perfectly well. They last a long time on a ducted car. They are easy on rotors. And, they mate beautifully with XP8s. I use the XP10 / XP8 combination on my RX-8 and Miata and love it. The only time I do something different, is when I plan to drive on street tires or in the rain.

poormxdad

Steve,

I have not had good luck commuting with XP10s up front. I've experienced a lot of rotor deposits on track, even after thoroughly bedding them in, that I attribute to lathing off the transfer layer during the drive to the track. Do you trailer your car?

Seriously, I wouldn't be doing all this if the XP10s worked after the drive to the track. I loved the XP10/XP8 combo.

Steve Dallas

I have not had a problem with deposits. The more abrasive particles in the compound will scrape the friction material off the rotors in concentric rings when driven on the street, but 2 or 3 laps on the track lays down new friction material, and everything is good to go.

hornetball

iTrader: (4)

I've had HUGE problems with uneven pad deposits using XP10s in the heat, even after starting with a perfect transfer layer. I don't use them anymore.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

PFC01/11

Steve Dallas

What timeframe are you talking about? I started using them about 2 years ago, and have never had any trouble at all. Perhaps they changed something since your experience with them?

hornetball

iTrader: (4)

I gave up on them ~2 years ago and went to PFCs. I mainly had issues in the Summertime. I probably could have gone up a notch to XP12s, but I've been really satisfied with the PFCs.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Do not ignore PFC recommendations from very experienced track stars.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I'm no track star, but I have never been able to get the PFCs to fade on the track and they work immediately when cold on the street. They also don't require bedding in. AND they don't make noise like some of the others. AND they don't dust as much and definitely not with stuff that's going to permanently F-up your wheels {looking at you, Hawk}. There are cheaper choices but they are just cheaper choices, not better choices.

Steve Dallas

Hey, I'll try anything that is supposed to be better than what I have. What PFC compounds are similar to XP10 and XP8? Or, is that even the right question?

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Info and relevant discussion can be found here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/og-racing...ce-pads-83108/

I run the "01" or "11" compound. 11 replaces the 01. It's the one to have, IMO.

Steve Dallas

Awesome. Thanks for the info.

What?! No one is going to chime in with SEARCH NEWB!!! I think this place might be losing a step.

hornetball

iTrader: (4)

PFC numbering is kind of weird. The numbers are related to year of development. It's not like a higher number indicates more heat resistance or anything like that. You really have to dig into the pad description. For Miatas it's easy because they don't have much in the way of choices. You just buy the one that fits your caliper.

poormxdad

I'm no track star either, but I came to the same conclusions as sixshooter a couple of years ago about the PFC 11s, before I switched over to Sport calipers. However, I kept searching due to the cost. They were the most expensive pads I had purchased, and only lasted for three events--four track days and three round trips--before wearing down past my comfort level. About that same time period I landed a pair of Sport front calipers at a really good price, so the experiment was over. I called OGRacing yesterday and asked if they could get the 11s in the Sport size. They're not listed on the website, unless my reading skills are deteriorating.

Steve Dallas

Yeah. I just had the realization as to why people seem to hate sport brakes. Before the idea of PFC entered my sphere, I had no issues with availability or pricing of rotors nor pads. I geddit now.