Engine mount W T F (what we thought we knew...isn't)
 

********UPDATED PICTURES ON PAGE 2*******************

OK...so...

When I pulled my engine out and discovered it had a ripped mount..the confusion started. I was told by the PO that he put MazdaComp engine mounts in. Also, the engine that I bought came with engine mounts, so I took one and put it in place of the one I ripped....which put the engine on a tilt. I figured that one "mazdacomp" engine mount and one "oem" mount were causing the misalignment. So I called a friend, Eric aka rotornut, and consulted him since he claimed to have bought "mazdacomp" engine mounts for his build. So I get over to his place and check my engine mounts-

Driver's side has the "N" mount
Pass side has a "oem" mount

Swap out pass side with a "N" mount that Eric had on his old engine.

Here is where things get strange. I call OPM Motorsports to get a replacement Mazdacomp mount to replace the one I got from Eric. Assuming the "N" mount is a non "oem" mount. I was informed that the "N" mount is a MazdaSpeed mount....not to be confused with MazdaComp.

MazdaComp has raised spot that is painted silver, and the "N" is supposed to be MazdaSpeed?.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_gr7cLDojmKI/Sd.../Photo%201.jpg

And this is "oem"...looks like the MazdaComp but has no casting marks on the side...you can see them in the above picture.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/im...-1041462-1.jpg


And what Flyin' Miata considers an upgraded mount..

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...umber=04-70155



So... the kicker came when I was at MazMart and happened to look at the pile of engine mounts...and almost ALL of them had "N" on them...and I know they weren't all MazdaSpeed mounts....but they were all NB mounts.

stock mounts P/N NC10-39-040
MazdaSpeed mounts (35% stiffer than stock) P/N N076-39-040, and (supposed to be the "N" mounts?)
Mazda Competition mounts (40% stiffer than stock) P/N NAY1-39-040 (identified by extra casting marks and raised silver bar)




So... WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!?!?!?
Is the "N" really an upgrade...or is it an update/upgrade from the early mounts?
What the hell is the "N" mount?

http://www.trackdogracing.com/websit...or_mounts2.jpg

fm just has a random photo of a motor mount, photo's lie

So then does the "MazdaSpeed" look like the "MazdaComp" or does it look like the stock mount? Is there any way to tell a "MazdaSpeed" from a oem or even a MazdaSpeed Miata/MSM?

Argh.

The other thing is that the driver's side that came off was def. a MazdaComp..the silver paint is gone but the thing is hard as a rock compared to the "N". When I pulled the pass. side mount, it was mushroomed/distorted...I can't remember what makrings were on it and am waiting for pics from Eric since I left it at his house.

I swear the "N" mounts look like they'd sit the engine lower thant the MCs which I thought was part of the reason for the MCs :dunno:

I have the Mazda Competetion mounts, they have the silver mark.

I'll take pictures of mine tomorrow... I got these:

http://949racing.com/mazdacompetitionmotormount.aspx

Can you just flex the rubber to see if you can feel +35% of stiffness?

Because companies like TrackDog advertise their upgraded mounts as MazdaSpeed I thought that they were the same as the MSM mounts, but never looked into it further because I never invested in different mounts until my engine build. And after doing some digging last Saturday I found that not to be the case. The mount that Mike got from me was from the 2004 MSM donor block I had, but it too has the 'N' symbol.

Here's the shots of both sides of the mount sitting in my garage that came from Mike's car that we now believe to be Mazda Competition:

Attachment 196223

Attachment 196224

When I swing by the dealership tomorrow, I'm going to ask the parts guy to order a Mazdaspeed (MSM) engine mount and a regualr 2002 enigne mount and see if he can let me physically compare them since the story seems to be that they look identical. I'm scheduled to pick up a set of MazdaComp mounts tomorrow....but I don't want to spend the $90 right now...I've got other priorities. I feel bad that I have to call this VERY nice shop and tell them I won't be getting them :(

The mazdacomp mounts have a white line on them. I brought them brand new and upgraded from stock mounts. The stock mounts have a N on them. I don't think the mazdaspeed miata has upgraded mounts so the only way to get upgraded motor mounts are to get the mazdacomp ones and once again they will have a white line.

You can feel the difference between all three mounts by twisting them in your hands. The problem is, you have to have all 3 kinds, and the stiffness could vary depending on age.

I bought upgraded motor mounts from FlyinMiata about 6 months ago and mounts definitely have the raised silver spot with no M marking. Their site lists them as MazdaComp, so I'm assuming they just got a stock photo online rather than the Comp mount photo.

I'm lost, so the MazdaComp are the actual stiff mounts, MazdaSpeed are just mounts off the MS models, and aren't stiffer than non MS mounts? I bought MS mounts for mine when I did the rebuild and assumed they were stiffer, since they were advertised as stiffer upgraded mounts. Maybe they are actually MazdaComp??? :confused: I'll have to look next time, but I think mine have the silver raised part, if I recall correctly. Does that make them MazdaComp?

Yes, MazdaComp are THE stiffies.
What I'm trying to get to the bottom of is the difference between stock and MazdaSpeed.
I was more confused because I was told by someone who ordered MazdaSpeed that the "N" was designated as a stiffer mount...becuse that's what was on their MSM mounts when they got them. Where it turns out that it seems that all leater mounts have the N designation.

AH. I would imagine the MS are stiffer, since they are from a turbocharged vehicle. Physical markings to ID them, I don't know.

Yeah, trying to find the physical difference between stock and MSM.

Not sure that there is any. I think they both have the N, and the Comp mounts have the silver raised thing on them.

I never remember reading that the MSM had better mounts. I still say they are stock. Also if they are better I willing to bet that mazda stopped making the "stock" NB mounts and now only has the MSM mounts. Maybe give the guys at Flyinmiata a call they rip down tons of miata and I am sure know more then the dealer lol

I too, would consider the possibility that there is no difference between mazdaspeed and 'normal' motor mounts. You have to remember that Mass market/OEM puts a HUGE emphasis on keeping NVH to a minimum, regardless of whether or not it is a 'sporty' package or not.

Key points:

A 'Mass market' purchaser will not notice any increase in performance with a stiffer motor mount.

A 'Mass market' purchaser WILL ABSOLUTELY notice an unexplainable 'decrease in comfort' with a stiffer motor mount.

Given the opportunity at a test drive, a 'Mass market' purchaser is less likely to purchase the same vehicle with a stiffer motor mount.

Alrighty, I had my friend at the dealership order a standard 2002 engine mount and a 2005 Mazdaspeed Miata engine mount. When they come in, I'll go up and compare them...and take pics so I can get to the bottom of this.

Godspeed my friend. Was a price difference between the mounts also do you have the part numbers

I looked in the 99-2004 parts catalog. I only see NC10-39-040, the only difference in parts I see is the brackets to bolt to motor...

http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/pdfs...x5_9905_cg.pdf

page 9


the only other part i can find for the mounts is NAY1-39-040 which is the MazComp mount.

Well there you go

Dealerships online like Rosenthal list a different part number for MSM mounts, they're the same price as the MazdaComp mounts they also sell (listed under NAY1-39-040), but $10/ea more expensive than the 99-05 (04-05 Non-Turbo) mounts they list.

N076-39-040 - Engine Mount 2004-2005 Turbo

http://www.finishlineperformance.com...cat=315&page=3

:dunno:

Part numbers for A MazdaSpeed mount have already been posted above :)
I'll get a pic of them, the part numbers and a price of each when they come in.

I know "N076" has been posted, I'm just saying the Official 99-05 Mazda Parts Catalog doesn't show a distinction for them. And they list the part number for the turbo and shit on that same page.

...which is part of the reason I'm going to get some in my damn hands and document :idea:

let me try to get a hold of my friend. he works for mazda usa.

If it helps anyone, here is a pic of a Mazda Competition mount with part numbers. It has the raised white painted line and no raised "N".

Attachment 196002

read much?

TrackDog sells Mazdacomp and advertises them as Mazdaspeed. I didn't know there was a difference and I doubt Gary does either. I work at TDR part time and have installed dozens of the motor mounts he sells. They have the line on the side and do NOT have an "N". Once this thread is completely clarified, I'll inform him about the differences.

Since there is some question throughout the thread of what part is advertised and what is actually shipped, I thought a picture of one of the "real" parts in it's original packaging w/part#'s could be useful to someone - at least one of the three mounts in question has been identified as "part in hand" with pics...I would have benefited from this picture instead of searching for days with mis-matched website pics and part#'s.... Good luck with the stock vs MSM search

Finally got to compare a brand new "stock" mount to a brand new MSM/Mazdaspee/MS mount. Diffence found...will post more soon.

insert penis size joke here?

in for details as it is getting to the point for me to buy some engine mounts....

I am waiting for pics to be forwarded to me that I took yesterday.

So I had my friend at the local dealership order 1 new "stock" and 1 new MSM mount.
Part numbers were NYA1 and N076 as to be expected. Right off the bat, they were identical. The only real difference was a little silver stripe painted on one side of the MSM mount...similar to the MazdaComp mount.

Playing with the two, the MSM was clearly stiffer.

Also, all the casting marks between the two were EXACTLY the same. With one exception. On one side there is a dashed number. I found that all of the 01-05 mounts at MazMart had "1-4" stamped on them, as well as the new non-MSM mount. The MSM mount had "1-3". All of the 99/00 ones I found had "2-3" or "2-2" on them. While that's not 100% confirmed, it's something I'll keep up until I can confirm it.

Here is a pic of a MSM mount taken from mazdaspeedy.com where you can see A mark on the side of the mount

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_gr7cLDojmKI/Sd.../Photo%201.jpg

You can see it's not exactly a silver stripe there and there is no knowing how quickly that marking degrades once the car is driven around. (just like how the silver markings were long gone on the MC mounts I pulled from my car during the engine swap)

Attached is a RENDERING of how the new ones looked. Once I get the pics from Paul, they will be posted up.

No one? Awwww you guys suck.

waiting for pics.

Have pics....

"Normal" engine mount

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...3168_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...3184_large.jpg

Mazdaspeed/MSM engine mount with silver stripe

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...3201_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...3216_large.jpg



Normal mount with "1-4" casting

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...3231_large.jpg

MAZDASPEED with "1-3"

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...3256_large.jpg



Though the silver stripe hasn't been confirmed to be MSM-Specific, I'd be willing to bet 99.9% sure that it is...considering they do something similar to the MC units. You can see the MAZDASPEED mount has more mold release on it, which could be a indicator that they need to because of the different compound in rubber used... or not (up for discussion).
As for the "1-x" casting, no confirmation on that either...but it's supect.

keep in mind some of the smaller text like the 1-4 may only mean that it was molded in cavity 4 of mold base 1 and not tell you anything about its rubber content or part number.

True. But comparing it to multiple other 01+ engine mounts, all were one, and the MSM was another. Like I said...just noting the differences between the two..take the findings as you may.

i think its safe to say that ALL the engine mounts suck for this car except for the comp mounts

and the comp mounts are cheaper too

Oh BTW..... looking around, it seems that Megan Racing is offering mounts for well over $100/pr....and they seem to be re-badged MazdaComp mounts. Maybe that's why the MC mounts are kinda hard to find right now because MR has them busy making some for them. :dunno:

PS- the mazda comp ones tear easily too.

Good info on the htread though.

I may be able to find that answer out.

Let me call someone.

I know....I've accomplished this as well :D

so what mounts should i buy!

MC mounts tear easy, so not those...

fuck megan racing

I'm still waiting for Energy Suspension to finish developing polyurethane mounts for our cars.

Last I heard was "were still working on it".

ES is working on it.

I just picked up the MMR mounts. So, I hope they dont break.

I have not heard back from my buddy at Megan yet about the relabled mounts.

I will say this though, i did have a pair of the MR mounts in early 08. I sold them though. i need the cash.. The ones I had were def stiffer/harder that MS R&D mounts

Be careful of the MMR mounts....the driver's side will likely deform from the heat of the turbo. Thus resulting in a tilted engine.


On a side note, I'll probably end up replacing my mounts with MSM mounts instead of MC mounts.

a simple heat shield and/or heat reflector is all thats needed guys

even wrapping them in foil will protect them from basic exposure

Was reminded to update this thread.

I recently ordered 2 NEW Mazdasped Miata turbo engine mounts (NOT MazdaComp).

Both engine mounts came with the silver stripe painted on them. It's definitely the way to determine the MSM from plain OEM. Since I installed the CC 6-puck clutch (but had "normal" engine mounts), I had a TON of clutch shudder while engaging. After the MSM mounts, clutch engagement is nice and smooth, helps with shifting as well. Don't know how much more durable they are over MazdaComp mounts, but they are worthy of recommending to use.

Doppleganger,

How do you you like the MSM mounts in terms of NVH for a daily?

NVH is up slightly, but still almost unnoticable...remember, they were designed for mass-consumer cars (the MSM). I got more NVH from the Beatrush PPF/diff brace. I had the MCs on my car when I first bought it and they were new at the time and NVH wasn't an issue to me then...but that was almost 3 years ago.

I think a good engine torque dampener would go along with the MSM mounts...and I'd like to find a good one.

Do you know what hp/tq the MSM mounts are god for?

Negative.

That has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

I have a mount that I believe I got from Dopple, and it say "1-2". I was told it was a stock stiffness mount.

Doppelgänger, why dont you drop the dough on the 70 dura's and not worry about it again?

Lord knows you've already spent as much on that car as most spend on a house! :)

Just want to update that I pulled the stock mounts out of the 01 I'm working on and installed the mazda comp mounts. This is what I recieved from Mazda.