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Old 04-26-2009, 08:14 PM   #1
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Default FCM Coilovers, keep Koni Sport or go Bilstein?

After riding in a properly set up S2k in the latest auto-x, I have decided I need to focus on the suspension. I have Koni Sports with RB street springs (196/120) right now. So should I keep the Koni's and throw some sleeves, springs, and bumpstops from FCM on, or just get the FCM coilover kit with the Bilstein's? It seemed like regardless, I'm gonna need the RB hollow front bar. For the springs, he suggested 550/325 or 450/300. Other setups are welcome. I talked to Shaik last week briefly and these were the two setups he recommended.

Things that you may want to keep in mind:
250whp turbo
HDHCDD Rollbar
RB LCA Brace
Hankook HR2's
Stock Sways


Thanks!
Michael
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:28 PM   #2
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One word.

Stance. Go full coilover what you do and stance is best out there right now with reasonable pricing
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:30 PM   #3
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Autox on stock sways and 196/120 springs? 250hp on that set up? Holy body roll batman! That can't be fun. That car must oversteer like crazy. Absolutely suspension should be on your mind. With the turbo you are already screwed into ridiculous classes in AutoX so you might as well have a suspension that will handle your use and power.

Budget? Goals?
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:37 PM   #4
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Autox on stock sways and 196/120 springs? 250hp on that set up? Holy body roll batman! That can't be fun. That car must oversteer like crazy. Absolutely suspension should be on your mind. With the turbo you are already screwed into ridiculous classes in AutoX so you might as well have a suspension that will handle your use and power.

Budget? Goals?
I know right.. Well I use to do high speed touring at Hallett pre-turbo. But once I started building my kit my focus was solely on that. After I got that done, the car got boring to me, and school took over my life. But I got to go with a friend to an auto-x recently and remembered how much I missed it.
Actually it understeered pretty bad, but had plenty of power oversteer on command. I'm not as concerned with classes bc the autox is put on by the Porsche club and its just run what ya brung.

Budget: I'm kinda open. If the Koni's are just as good as the Bilsteins or equiv, then I'll just keep them and get the accesories. If the Bilsteins or equiv are going to be substantially better,then I'll just do that.

Goals: I want this to be as good in around turns as it is in a straight line. Think ultimate street car. It's not my DD, so I don't worry about creature comforts as much.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:57 PM   #5
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Bandit, was it a PCA event in OKC or Tulsa?

NEOkla just had there event today as well at Stroud.

As far as setup, I've got FCM 650/450 on my MSM with 1.25" bar up front and no rear bar, and I like it a lot. Rides well on the street, better than stock and I was 5th fastest raw at the last event (obviously didn't have it out there today). We have lots of talent in our group so I was ecstatic about that. Let me know if you have any questions.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:18 AM   #6
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Bandit, was it a PCA event in OKC or Tulsa?

NEOkla just had there event today as well at Stroud.

As far as setup, I've got FCM 650/450 on my MSM with 1.25" bar up front and no rear bar, and I like it a lot. Rides well on the street, better than stock and I was 5th fastest raw at the last event (obviously didn't have it out there today). We have lots of talent in our group so I was ecstatic about that. Let me know if you have any questions.

It was a PCA event last weekend at the Sheriffs Training Center in OKC. It was the second one I'd been to. I'm just trying to get to learn the ins/outs of suspension. I've just been stuck in turbo design mode for so long now. Shaik suggested that if I stay with my Koni's, to go with 450/300 adjustable perch kit. But if the better choice is to just go with the full coilover bilsteins, then that's what I'll do. Probably need to call and talk to him again. I might see if you wanna meet up sometime and swap rides. I wasn't aware there was anyone else on here from Tulsa.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:33 PM   #7
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I've been down the Sherrif's track with the BMW guys a few times. My buddy in a Civic Type-R powered CRX runs down there. Their events are high speed, so it's not what I'm used to (not to say they aren't fun).

The better choice is to get a system that is designed to work with all the components, (the complete kit) rather than to start slapping the parts together. If there is no budget constraint get a designed system rather than a DIY. FCM is a good setup, but lots of rave reviews are out there for the Tein's. Emilio is getting ready to release his setup, and if you want ultimate, the 949 (emilio) setup will probably be the way to go.

We have an event on May 17th @ Stroud. Why don't you come out and we can talk then and I can show you my car.
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:03 PM   #8
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Koni Yellows, 525/350 springs with GC perches, RB 1.125 Hollow Front sway, 36mm bump stops.
Car handles flat, neutral, and sexy (read fast).

I like it anyway.
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:46 PM   #9
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I'm a cheap guy. I always end up doing things over several times because of that. If it were my car I'd keep the koni sports and add ebay threaded perches and QA1 springs. QA1 makes a quality spring that you can get for about $40 a corner. I'd likely go 450-525 front and 2/3rds of that in the rear. RB Hollow front, stock rear bar. Used 99+ top hats or FCM mounts. FCM bump stops.

For $500-600 that would be a pretty good system. Maybe not ideal and like me down the road you might want to upgrade.

If money didn't matter? Full FCM system made for you. FM Afco. Savington loves his Koni Races. Lot's of options if spending $1500-2000 doesn't bother you.

Tein I'm not so sold on, but that's as a DD/track car. I have some and have been using them for about a year. Not Flex's but RA's. Lot's of the flex guys have the same complaints I do. Not enough low speed damping. Too harsh high speed. I guess if you aren't worried about street comfort they do work well at the track.

Last edited by cueball1; 04-27-2009 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:53 PM   #10
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Well, money certainly isn't growing on trees yet, so the most cost effective setup is what I'm after. I'm kind of leaning towards keeping my shocks and just getting the sleeves and QA1's. Is it even worth trying to piece together myself or should I just go with the FCM adjustable perch kit ($680) for my Koni's?
Pardon my ignorance, but what all do I need to make this work? I mean obviously I need the sleeves, bumpstops, and the new springs. Other than that, I'm a bit confused as to what else I'm having to buy. Like I said, very new to this, just trying to be able to put understand the whole system.

Thanks!
Michael
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:26 PM   #11
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Ebay sleeves, QA1 Springs, FCM 36mm Bumpstops if you want to lower the car an inch or less.
3 orders, 3 sets of different items. East pieced order for sure and you're saving major coin compared to going with the FM parts.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:09 AM   #12
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned bushings yet, Emilio has an Energy Suspension bushing kit. It was a bitch to install, but it is the foundation of your setup.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:15 PM   #13
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Foam bumpstops are available for about $40 just about anywhere. Get Fatcat's top hats or salvage NB hats. Salvage might be $20-40. Coleman Racing does quality coilover sleeves for $43 per corner. Qa1 springs run $35 a corner. Total budget set up with quality parts should be around $400.

If you go salvage hats, generic foam bumpstops and Ground Control/ Eibach you are still under $500.

Either way figure the RB hollow bar is an essential. $150.

Skip the additional bracing for the RB bar. When you get it take a dremel or other tool to the urethane bushings for the bracket. That bushing clamps WAY too tight to the bar. Even well lubed it still won't move easily. That tension is the primary cause of the bracket issues most people have. This isn't to say it might not need additional strength in extreme applications but relieving that tension removes a lot of the stress on the brackets as the bar rotates. (that tip comes from a couple different sources. Both Eddy at Adrenaline Racing and also Corksport.) Have had no problems with mine after 2 years, 30K miles, couple of Autox's and 12-15 track days.

Optional is another $200, lots of time and swearing and you have all new Urethane bushings. $200-300 for a good corner weighting.

Damn good suspension redo for $600 will make a huge difference. Hard core total redo about $1K.

I'd go perches, springs, used hats, generic foam stops and RB hollow. Add bushings & corner weighting if you aren't happy after some time with those new parts.
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:39 PM   #14
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Where can you get foam bump stops for $40? Is that for all 4?
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:43 PM   #15
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I'm finally starting to get it..I think. Looking back at GChambers posts on M.net has helped.

So far:

Rb Front Sway - $150 - 949racing
ES Base Bushing Kit- $180 - 949racing
End Links - $80 - 949racing
QA1 Springs 550/350 7" - $160 - FCM or Summit (Any reason to go H&R or Eibach over these?)
Bumpstops and Mounts - $280 - FCM? (Or should I go factory NB from salvage? Are they the same? Not sure where else to get bumpstops)
Koni Coilover Sleeves/Perches/Isolators - $180 - Swerve Motorsports or King Motorsports)

This comes up to $465 w/o the bar, bushings, and endlinks, which is pretty reasonable IMO.

Give me your thoughts on the Springs/Bumpstops/Mounts.

Thanks for all your help guys!
Michael

Last edited by TheBandit; 04-28-2009 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
Where can you get foam bump stops for $40? Is that for all 4?


Just google foam bumpstops, polyurethane bumpstops or evs bumpstops. All will produce different results. Summit has some for $20 a pair. Others have stuff running from $15 to $25 a pair. Different designs, different materials, different densities. Energy Suspensions even makes some.

For used top hats check with FM, Planet Miata, Partsgroup, Mazmart or anyone parting an NB. Used NB complete suspensions with shocks, springs and hats are dirt cheap. See if someone is willing to just sell the hats and bumpstops from these! Might get the hats and stops for next to nothing! An example is partgroup. They have a complete 4 corner NB shock, hat, spring, bumpstop, dust boot set for $99. Sell the springs and shocks and you got the hats, stops, boots for really cheap.

Endlinks are an option. Can always be added later.
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:39 PM   #17
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Well that's interesting.......I might have to get some of these in and get a load-displacement curve since no one releases that kind of data (except for FCM).
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:28 PM   #18
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Well, after talking to Shaik again, I think I'm going to go ahead and get the FCM kit with the Bilsteins while it's on sale. I'll let you know as soon as it gets here and I get them installed.Thanks for all your help guys!

-Michael
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:31 PM   #19
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Good choice. Shaikh knows his ****. I still want to drive an FCM-equipped car on track to see how it compares.


To the guy who suggested Stance: Get out.
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Old 05-01-2009, 04:03 PM   #20
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Bandit, like I said, I should have my car @ Stroud on the 17th (if I'm not codriving a friend's car). You can check it out there if you want.
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