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Old 10-16-2009, 09:03 PM   #1
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Default FM anti-sway bars and camber

Just curious. Is there a reason they make them narrower between the ends than stock (meaning they are closer inward to the car)? My stock links are in such a bind they I can't keep the damn bolts tight and the bushings in them are about to pull out when I tighten up the bolts. I'm about to have to tighten all 4 links up again because they are rattling like hell. Last time a few months ago most of the bolts were so loose the nuts were about to spin off the end, and thats a lot of threads to travel. This time I'm going to loctite the bastards. I really wanted after market links with rose joints to fix this issue, but can't really afford them right now.

Secondary question, what is the typical result of too much camber. Since I lowered my car I have had a terrible time with the rear end kind of hopping around hard turns. I forgot all about the alignment after lowering it, so the camber is crazy. The rear almost looks like something is broken, its riding on the inside edges of the tires. I would imagine that would be my hopping issue. Sucky thing is its about 1/2'' lower than I would like and I think reducing camber will make my rubbing issue even worse. So tomorrow will be a day of fun camber setting and tightening these god forsaken end link bolts.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:53 PM   #2
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What's your suspension? What is the ride height?
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:19 PM   #3
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R package Bilstein's, FM springs, FCM mounts and bumps, FM sways, 205/50's on 6.5'' wheels.

Ride height 11.75'' F/ 12'' R. I was aiming for more in the mid 12's, but it couldn't be helped with both the FCM mounts and FM springs. If I wasn't so lazy I would make some spacers to go between the mounts and the chassis. I would be happy with 1/2'' higher ride height. As it is now the rear only rubs the fender over large dips in the road, front rubs under hard cornering with any small bumps or at low speeds with the wheel turned more than half lock. Before I lowered the car my camber was already in the upper end of what it should have been, so now that its ~1.5'' lower, its WAY too much.

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Old 10-16-2009, 10:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
Secondary question, what is the typical result of too much camber. Since I lowered my car I have had a terrible time with the rear end kind of hopping around hard turns. I forgot all about the alignment after lowering it, so the camber is crazy. The rear almost looks like something is broken, its riding on the inside edges of the tires. I would imagine that would be my hopping issue. Sucky thing is its about 1/2'' lower than I would like and I think reducing camber will make my rubbing issue even worse. So tomorrow will be a day of fun camber setting and tightening these god forsaken end link bolts.
What rubbing issue? Just curious if that's related to the thread.

If it's 1/2" lower than you want, raise it up where you want it first, then set camber. You gain negative camber as the suspension goes through it's downward travel.

If you have coilovers and really want a good handling car, get it corner weighted. Even at pretty even ride heights the cross weights can be out more than you think.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:25 PM   #5
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What rubbing issue? Just curious if that's related to the thread.

If it's 1/2" lower than you want, raise it up where you want it first, then set camber. You gain negative camber as the suspension goes through it's downward travel.

If you have coilovers and really want a good handling car, get it corner weighted. Even at pretty even ride heights the cross weights can be out more than you think.
Rubbing of tires on the rear fender. I can't adjust ride height, only have Bilstein's and FM springs. I'm not ballin' enough for coilovers. I would have been fine if it wasn't for the extra drop from the FCM mounts, but I wanted the improved ride quality they offer, and was too cheap to buy the spacers that would negate the 1/2'' drop. I'm surprised I don't have any bump steer I can tell. I guess its because its an R package and already has the good tie rod ends.

Pictures, ignore the mismatch front wheels/tires, I had a blowout just prior to the install.

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I also have yet to roll the fenders, so that will probably help out. Most of the rub now is from the fender liner in the front and the sidewall rubs a bit in he rear over hard dips.

Sorry, didn't mean to make a real detailed thread out of it, was mostly just wondering why the FM sways are more narrow than stock. If they had a design reason. I guess that would be best answered by the FM staff.
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
Rubbing of tires on the rear fender. I can't adjust ride height, only have Bilstein's and FM springs. I'm not ballin' enough for coilovers. I would have been fine if it wasn't for the extra drop from the FCM mounts, but I wanted the improved ride quality they offer, and was too cheap to buy the spacers that would negate the 1/2'' drop. I'm surprised I don't have any bump steer I can tell. I guess its because its an R package and already has the good tie rod ends.

I had zero trouble installing mine. I do have RB endlinks, though. IIRC, they recommended adjustable endlinks. Maybe this is why? I also lowered to 12/12.5 on my NB so not too extreme. I've never even had it aligned. It works great.
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:35 AM   #7
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Well the problem is since the section of the bar that the link bolts up to, and the tabs on the control arm don't line up directly, the end link is kind of in a bind. The stock bar was wider and allowed the links to be more straight on. It works, its just in a bind and the damn bolts won't stay tight by themselves. I'm also worried that the stress will rip the tabs off of the control arm. Maybe I'll just use some Loctite and forget about it.
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:58 PM   #8
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Your not all that low. 11 3/4, 12 isn't outlandish (by CR standards you are still jacked up!). That's where I'm at (gonna add another 1/2 in height this weekend) and I'm running 2 degrees camber front and 1.6 rear. If you can't get the camber down to a reasonable level something else must be going on.
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:19 PM   #9
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Just finished up tightening the end links and adjusting my camber. Everything went well except I must have adjusted the front right toe WAY out by accident, because now the right points way out when the wheel is straight. Got the camber back down to reasonable levels, rear actually might not have enough now. Easy enough to go back and add a little more later. I also think my front rub issues are gone. I thought it was rubbing the fender edge, gut it was actually rubbing on the fender liners. I trimmed a bit off of them and no more rub under half to full lock turns. Now once I fix the toe out in the front right I will be set for a while I think. I only found one end link loose, the front left nut on the bar itself was threaded off almost to the end of the bolt. So that clunk is gone for now. Would have gone back to finish up but it started to rain.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:08 PM   #10
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I'm really confused as to how me changing the camber on both sides in the front can cause only my right side to have tow out. Either way, I got the camber pretty spot on for a driveway adjustment. Looks to be close enough on both sides to suit me. I ended up having to turn the tie rod on the right side in about 3 turns to fix the toe problem and make it track straight. I think I might still have the toe slightly off still, the car is a tad bit harder to turn and tends to stay where I point it and is slightly more sensitive to bump steer. I'm happy enough with it since it now doesn't clunk and handles better than before. Before when I would try to drive aggressive the rear would step out with no warning and would be very bouncy under power. Now I can slide the rear out slightly and hold it where I want it with the throttle and it does so smoothly and without any fuss (not in a drifter *** kind of way). Good enough by my book, though I may drop the $50 one day and bring it to Trussville Mazda and have their Miata guy align it for me. Oh and apparently my rub issue was directly camber related. So let that be a warning to those who like the extreme camber angle to fix rub issues. It may not rub the fenders but it will rub everything else under there. Mine is now rub free in all aspects, except maybe still if I hit a BIG dip in the road at high speeds.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:45 AM   #11
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I have to say, 949Racing end links are bad ***. Very beefy, well made, and are so easy to adjust thanks to all 17mm fasteners. I have gone for about 2 months with only one side of my sway bar attached in the front, which has made for some super scary driving when I forget about it and try to take an onramp loop at 60mph and the front end dives like crazy and pushes hard Handles like sloppy ***. The rose joints absolutely make me feel better about the setup now that there is no binding like with the stock shitty NA dog bone links. Now I have tons of clearance between the shock and the link (3/4''), where as my Bilstein is missing a ton of paint from rubbing from the stock setup. Now I just need to go get a goddamn alignment. I have gone through 2 sets of front tires (4 total for the mathematically challenged) in something like 9 months. Never got it aligned after the FCM tophats and FM springs that dropped it over an inch. Inside edges wear down to the wire on new tires in as little as 3000 miles. Go me! New alignment before I pull out my backup tires and have them mounted and balanced. Just thought I would give props to 949 for selling good products as always.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:08 AM   #12
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I'm a big fan of the RB endlinks. They're NOT the best or the most hardcore track endlink, but they don't rattle. They're cheap. And I've not destroyed a set of them yet. That's better than the last two sets of heim joint links I ate up.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:33 AM   #13
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I'm a big fan of the RB endlinks. They're NOT the best or the most hardcore track endlink, but they don't rattle. They're cheap. And I've not destroyed a set of them yet. That's better than the last two sets of heim joint links I ate up.
Yeah but outside of being adjustable, which I don't need, they are the same as stock. I needed links with a movable joint to do away with the bind.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
I have to say, 949Racing end links are bad ***. Very beefy, well made, and are so easy to adjust thanks to all 17mm fasteners. I have gone for about 2 months with only one side of my sway bar attached in the front, which has made for some super scary driving when I forget about it and try to take an onramp loop at 60mph and the front end dives like crazy and pushes hard Handles like sloppy ***. The rose joints absolutely make me feel better about the setup now that there is no binding like with the stock shitty NA dog bone links. Now I have tons of clearance between the shock and the link (3/4''), where as my Bilstein is missing a ton of paint from rubbing from the stock setup. Now I just need to go get a goddamn alignment. I have gone through 2 sets of front tires (4 total for the mathematically challenged) in something like 9 months. Never got it aligned after the FCM tophats and FM springs that dropped it over an inch. Inside edges wear down to the wire on new tires in as little as 3000 miles. Go me! New alignment before I pull out my backup tires and have them mounted and balanced. Just thought I would give props to 949 for selling good products as always.
FYI about ride height with FM springs and FCM mounts.

http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igaller...spacer_top.JPG

It keeps the car from being lowered too much. I just ordered a full mount, bumpstop, and riser set for the front and rear.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:52 AM   #15
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FYI about ride height with FM springs and FCM mounts.

http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igaller...spacer_top.JPG

It keeps the car from being lowered too much. I just ordered a full mount, bumpstop, and riser set for the front and rear.
I would have if I could do it again. I could always make spacers myself, but I am too lazy and don't care enough. The rest of the car is **** anyway. I'm not going to spend any more than I have to until the time comes to strip it back apart and start over with a bigger engine. Then it will get new suspension, the current just won't cut it.
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:20 PM   #16
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Put some ebay coilovers on it.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:10 AM   #17
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How about I put my ***** on your chin?

I just love having such a low ride height. It's to the point now where I have to fear hitting small road kill. I saw a dead cat after it was too late today and now have chunks of cat in my undercarriage. Heard the skull pop on what I assume was something in the front suspension, maybe the sub frame or maybe the oil pan. Can't even straddle dead animals anymore. I guess I will have to swerve like a mad man in the future into oncoming traffic to avoid beating up the front bumper and making my undercarriage messy with entrails and fur. Or rely on the big redneck truck in front of me to actually run it over and flatten it a bit.
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