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Old 02-15-2009, 08:59 PM   #1
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Default Front sway bar suggestion

I am undecided on a front sway bar:

Option 1: Racing beat front sway bar with stock endlinks or
Option 2: NB oem front sway bar with mazdaspeed endlinks

This will be on NB bilstein HD w/ ground control and stock rear sway bar.

Any suggestions?
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:56 PM   #2
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Swaybars are a fine-tuning instrument. How is the car handling presently? Understeerey? Oversteerey? Forgot about body roll for the moment, what is the car's disposition in a turn?
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:58 PM   #3
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Any suggestions?
Yeah. Fill out your location and signature.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:59 PM   #4
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not to mention what your goals and intended use for the car is to be.

nb links are a known weak point. are you looking to change the car's dynamics or make it more reliable?
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:49 PM   #5
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Are you on all stock sways right now?
What are you going to do with the car? Auto-x, drift, track, weekend fun car, etc?
What is the handling balance like right now?

I suggest you try this helpful little calculator from FatCatMotorports:
FCM_MSDS_1_8NB.xls

You can enter in the values to find your baseline roll couple with your current setup. If you like the way your car feels now, you can try to maintain your target roll couple. If you want a little bit more oversteer, you can try raising your rear ride height ~.25" increments, given you're not too low and engaging the jounce bumpers a lot.

If you get the Mazdaspeed competition adjustable end links, you'll probably get noticeably better steering response, very slightly rougher ride over bumpy roads, very slightly more understeer and very slightly less body roll.

If you go with the RB tubular front bar, it will probably be a pretty good Auto-x setup, with noticeably better steering response, less body roll, more planted under power, but somewhat more understeery at steady state. Ride will probably suffer a slight amount over rough roads. The only thing is the tubular bar is pretty stiff, and there's stories floating around about NB's ripping out lower A-arm mounts, sway bar brackets and end links in spirited driving.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:16 AM   #6
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hopefully this ******* idiot killed himself so we don't have to read this garbage anymore.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzyx7 View Post

If you get the Mazdaspeed competition adjustable end links, you'll probably get noticeably better steering response, very slightly rougher ride over bumpy roads, very slightly more understeer and very slightly less body roll.


"noticeably better steering response" from endlinks?

Jounce bumpers?

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:37 AM   #8
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Endlinks:
I installed heim joint end links on my car, and the steering response improved. Not nearly as much as putting a thick sway bar in, but still noticeable. Theres no waiting for the rubber bushings in the stock endlinks to load up before the bar comes into play.

Jounce Bumpers:
If the OP has his coilovers set up such that rears are too low, they will engage the rear jounce bumpers, effectively increasing his rear spring rates and cause oversteer, at which point raising the rear ride height will reduce oversteer. If his suspension isn't too low, then raising the rear ride height will also raise his rear roll center, making his roll couple distribution more rear biased for more oversteer.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:48 AM   #9
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They are called bumpstops. Adjustable endlinks do not cause understeer, either.
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Old 02-16-2009, 01:01 AM   #10
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Bump stops are more like what the na's run... some hard rubber ****. NB's use jounce bumpers... typically MCU, and much more progressive. I'm assuming that's what he's using since he's running NB bilsteins.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:02 AM   #11
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"jounce bumpers"



They're called bumpstops dude.. but thanks for the laugh.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzyx7 View Post
Endlinks:
I installed heim joint end links on my car, and the steering response improved. Not nearly as much as putting a thick sway bar in, but still noticeable. Theres no waiting for the rubber bushings in the stock endlinks to load up before the bar comes into play.

Jounce Bumpers:
If the OP has his coilovers set up such that rears are too low, they will engage the rear jounce bumpers, effectively increasing his rear spring rates and cause oversteer, at which point raising the rear ride height will reduce oversteer. If his suspension isn't too low, then raising the rear ride height will also raise his rear roll center, making his roll couple distribution more rear biased for more oversteer.
Do you HONESTLY think it's wrong to make love to children?
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Do you HONESTLY think it's wrong to make love to children?
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.



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Old 02-16-2009, 02:41 PM   #14
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Mazda catalog says "part# 28-111B=bump stopper"
Sorry dude, I was going to stick up for you, but you are a little wrong.
Your argument is somewhat correct though...
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Do you HONESTLY think it's wrong to make love to children?
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.

Must have forgotten which forum he was on...

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Old 02-16-2009, 04:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by maj75 View Post
Must have forgotten which forum he was on...

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Old 02-16-2009, 08:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Do you HONESTLY think it's wrong to make love to children?
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
Wow, Hustler... you should get some help. There's plenty of people out there who can. Like this guy.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Mazda catalog says "part# 28-111B=bump stopper"
Sorry dude, I was going to stick up for you, but you are a little wrong.
Your argument is somewhat correct though...
Zabac, I admit I was wrong in that Mazda calls it a bump stop, and I believe most racing circuits refer to it as a bump stop as well.

I used the term b/c most OEMs today and numerous SAE papers, like this one, call the bump stop a jounce bumper.

Tomato, Tomahhto.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:56 PM   #19
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I've decided that I'm no longer going to refer to those round black hoops surrounding my wheels as "tires", from now on they are "vulcanized rubber whooptydoos".
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:15 PM   #20
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ok ok...

Sorry for the thread jack, Lunatik.
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