Give me some input on a decent sub $1000 suspension setup
 

I am building a solo1 / hillclimb turbocharged Miata.

Adding up all of the costs to bring this car to track ready, things are getting pretty high.

Right now I'm looking for inputs for a good "budget" track suspension.

Our local track on the smooth rating is maybe a 7/10. No elevation changes either. And for hill climb, it will be on public roads so something that can work with a surface like this is best.

The shock/spring setup will be coupled with poly bushings and front and rear a/m sway bars. I haven't decided on which ones yet.

racelands:giggle:

Good to see you cheaping out on suspension rather than the engine, its the least important performance area.

Don't mis-take "budget" for cheap. I am far from cheap, if you saw my RX7 you would understand.

I am merely looking for a good shock/spring setup that will preform well until I feel like dropping 2k on the coilovers I want.

When I add up everything from safety items (cage, seat etc), engine, cooling, exhaust, wheels/tires etc. I just don't have the cash to spend on expensive coil overs right now.

And I KNOW some shock/spring combos can preform and are better than a lot of mid-grade coilovers. I just want to see what other people are running on the track and go from there.

Search "suspension hierarchy" in the box up yonder.

I thought the $2k shocks and springs were entry level?
You're not going to find anything "decent" aside from Tein Flex under $2k.
I'm certain you rRX7 was a raging piece of shit and I'd certainly curb-stomp it in a naturally aspirated Miata...and probably fist your girlfriend and shit on your chest too.

yup... looks like a raging pile of shit to me!
Attachment 201190


You're a dick.

And I still own my FD, it's my DD and weekend track car. The Miata is going to be a stripped out competition track car.





Back to the topic.

What do you guys think of the Bilstein / Ground Control set up.?

The Bilsteins are $479 and GC's are $399.

Other option is the Flex.


Hey Bond... that's a good thread but for the most part it just shows cost. I'm trying to get some input from people who have used setups like this and how they found them.

I had GC/Bilstein and couldn't get them off the car quick enough to replace with flex. The bilsteins have WAY TOO MUCH REBOUND and will beat the everliving shit out of you on the street. On the track they were okay but the car was pretty twitchy and hard to drive...but I learned a lot from driving on them for so long.

yes, I'm a dick.

What about the FCM revalved bilsteins. I think that will set you back ~1k.

I think you could recoup a lot of the cost if you sold them later with the springs to someone that had a similar setup.

The problem also lies in the fact that you would have to find someone with a car that had a similar weight distribution.

I believe FCM wants spring rate, and ride height at each corner. It's supposed to be a pretty pimp setup. I'm currently saving my pennies.

I've seen the tein flex coilovers sell for 750 to 900 on this site. I can't recall if it was decided if these are really nice or overrated.

Hustler uses the tein flex so they must suck. My FM springs and my AGX shocks are better than hustlers tein flex setup. Everybody elses tein flex setup is the tits, just not hustlers.

You can try my car next time you're my way. Put the Flex on last night.

Can't say much more than that because I haven't really driven on them yet (rain).

What spring rates do the flex come with out of the box?

I'm kind of looking at the Koni Race now too. Savington uses them and seems to like them a lot.

tein basic?

Yes, I've seen the basic but I really thing a well set up shock/spring combo witll out preform a base model Tein for the same price. I've owned a few Teins in the past, one being the basic and was not really impressed. They were good for street driving but I think the would have been poor on the track.

Get used bilsteins (200), eBay coilovers for the collars (50), use rear 350's, get front qa1 650's (70), isc top hats rear (100), revalve from Stewart Development (400), sway bars of choice (200), 949racing end links (160), conquer Hustlers mom, profit

Can you point out these ebay perches? I've tried to find them....

Just get on eBay Motors and search for Coilover. I just did this and got >13,000 hits, the first few hundred of which appear relevant.

Example: 92 93 94 95 HONDA CIVIC COILOVER KIT (SCALE) : eBay Motors (item 170434006615 end time Jan-20-10 19:15:53 PST)



Heh. Once you've been here a while, you'll start to appreciate Hustler. Yeah, he's a dick. But so long as you're not the one he's mocking, he's a pretty funny dick. ;)

shit that stuff looks ghetto... I wouldn't feel comfortable using those.



and as for hustler, I kinda figured that out after reading a few more of his posts...

Konis and ground controls.

All of the used Flex that I have seen have been between $750 and $950. You have some time until spring so start watching ebay and the FS section here. I bought mine here for $800 shipped, along with a set of FM front and rear sways with Racing Beat endlinks for $100 shipped. Gotta jump on them quick, though.

As far as how they ship stock, 5Kg/mm rear, 7Kg/mm front but you never can be sure unless you check because people can order whatever springs they want from several distributors.

I also ran my car without the rear sway and used the FM front, street or autox. For autox, full hard front, 4 clicks down on the rear. It helped balance out the car and let it rotate with throttle.

If you are doing a stripped track car with 275's you will likely be need to be much higher sprung than mine. Anothe guy that autox'ed a competitive turbo Miata was somewhere around 12k/9k springs. Mine was a DD car.

Personally, I agree with you. A couple of years ago I ordered a set for myself just out of curiosity. The build quality was ok, however regardless of what vehicle model they have listed in the title, they're all universal fit, and include various spacers, rubber donuts, etc., which you're supposed to stack together to make it fit. That part seemed really cheezy to me.

I think I paid around $800 for my current shock absorbers. They're Bilstein HDs that I sent to FCM for custom re-valving. Worth every penny.

I agree with both of you...and made a perch that fits over my shocks and has a retainer ring that holds the threaded collar tightly. That and QA1 springs makes those eBay kits full of win.

This, and/or this:

I have the full-boat FCM kit, it was like $1600, but worth it. Add a couple hundred +/- for the RB front bar and 949 end links, forget the rear bar if you want to be able to put down any power coming out of turns.

I won't be running 275's. Most likely 225's on all fours. AutoX will be just a fun thing for me. The suspension setup is definatley going to be geared more towards track use. That's the main thing I'm building the car for. AutoX locally sucks anyways and I just go out to it to have some fun. I use someone elses car for Ntl Tour events.

So If I were to get Koni Race, and the ground control set up... how are the springs that you get with it? Anyone know the lb rating? Would it be an idea to get some more QA1 springs since they are cheap?

They slide right on, I don't know whats ghetto about that? I ran the full ebay kit on my MSM in NASA TT. Also Fatcatmotorsports does a great revalve using 70's shock technology, which is fine because the shock is 70's tech. Stewart develpment will provide a superior revalve using modern shims and valves. The guys name is Bernie and he knows his shit.

I would go with koni race fronts and koni sport rears and ground controls with 650 front and 375 rears. Then a front sway bar and remove the rear. ISC mounts would be good, or just DIY some NB tophats.

I run a similar setup, but with softer springs since my car weighs less.

The QA1 springs don't come in 6" length, which is what I would go with. I would just try to pick up some used Eibach ERS (sccaforums classifieds)

This is a decent idea, but I have a question, thinking out loud.

Does anyone think that the droop travel difference between the Race and Sports could create a suspension travel problem when the suspension is unloaded?

What do you figure that setup would cost?

alot of good info here, ill be looking into some of the setups you people posted

Sure if you rally

my GC/revalved bilsteins feel great. And are actually pretty mild on the street

I'm either doing this or buying Xida.

And you will either eat caviar or eat alpo afterward.

yes i will eat my caviar with the money left over from buying my properly selected spring rates perfectly matched to the desired valving to support the spring rates at a fraction of the cost.:giggle:

I thought you just put on tein flex coilovers. What's up?

You specify them when you order. Order 6" 700lb fronts and 7" 450lb rears. Use your OEM rear sway bar and a tubular Racing Beat front bar, the biggest one you can find. Start searching for an MSM rear bar to replace your OE bar. ISC mounts + RACEs are bad news since the car will sit at full droop at static height. With stock NA tophats I have enough bump travel to rub the front tires on the tops of the wheelwells. I'd stick with NA mounts since all the NB/FM/ISC mounts do is trade bump for droop. RACEs have short bodies which already do the same thing. If I want anything on my shocks, it's more droop travel.

IMO, 700/450 RACEs are the best budget coilover on the market. $1400 brand new, tough to find used. Proven fast on the track. This is why it's tough to meet a $1000 budget, even though that's the number everyone picks - by the time you've added sways, endlinks, and a coilover sleeve/spring combo to that $1k budget, you're left with like $400 for shocks.

RACE + 700/450GC + sways + endlinks + ES bushings + alignment = ~$2k. When you're ready to step up, sell the shocks/springs for ~$1100 and order whatever flavor of XIDA your wallet will endure.

Why do you go with the tubular over the solid? the general consensus so far from my research is to go with the solid. What are you thoughts?

Where did you purchase your RACE's? I've had a hard time tracking them down. If I wanted to go with a cheaper shock to start out with, anything else you could recommend?

So stock tophats all around?

Tubular is the same rate but lighter, IIRC. You can get the RACEs from Goodwin or send me a PM and I should be able to get them for you as well. There's really not a cheaper shock that will control those rates. I've never had an issue with a lack of bump travel, only a lack of droop, so I'd stick with the NA hats, yeah.

tubular is stiffer. but if your running aftermarket rear bar, you might need the tubular to keep the f/r balance. with the solid i removed my rear beacuse it was too tail happy.

norcaldrift -> Zankoku is making is own line of COILOVERS!

Better than Teins atleast...

He did say something about hillclimb... and its an issue I had on stock suspension before going to KW's on another car. Just something to consider. (car was frequently driven on dirt... hard)

?? Maybe you mean better price, but I haven't heard of those before and who knows what the quality will be like. Less than $700 for coilovers smells like shit quality from a mile away.

op...Revalved Bilsteins or Koni race(you could use sports in the rear to save a bit) with spring rate of choice on some adjustable perches, plus at least a bigger front bar/endlinks and stock rear sway(or none at all) is a good starting point at least if you decide to go spring/shock route.

I don't like my stock Bilstein HD's at all. Can't wait to get them revalved.

I've pretty much decided to go with the Koni Race, with perches an QA1 springs. Seems that it will get me the most performance for my dollar at this point.

If anyone happens to be selling some lightly used RACE's let me know.

how do these koni's stack up against FCM Bilsteins?

Technically the custom revalve on the monotube bilsteins, that are built specifically for a specified spring-rate and weight of car, should be better than the off of the shelf koni races.
Will you drive your car hard enough or be sensitive enough to need that or even notice? :confused:That depends I guess. Either one is really a good choice. Personally I'm going Bilstein revalves because I have the hd's already so it's cheaper that way.

I think the shock body is also very short on the koni race in comparison to the bilsteins.

plus they wont jack down like a bitch, so they'll acutally be comfortable...

How much does it cost for a custom re-valve for the HD's? Also, would you run the same 700/450lb rates that you would with the RACE's? If not, what rates would work best with a revalved HD? I was chatting with a local Miata racer the other day and he said from the Bilsteins, Race's and KW coils he's ran, he like the custom valved belsteins better than the off the shelf Konis. The KW's were obviously the best.

Trying to compare bilsteins + valving = $400 + valving$?
to Koni Race = $279/ea = $1116

found these...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BILST...Q5fAccessories

Bilstein USA will do the re-valve for $60.00/shock plus return shipping (there is a form on their website). A few people on M.net have suggested using the "FastMike" valving as a starting point. Shaik over at FCM does nice custom re-valving as well but last time I checked his website the price was $1,012 for a set of 4!

wow! $1000!.

Will the Bilstein USA valving be as good as the Stewart valving?

What goes about figuring out the custom valve? I assume you tell them what spring rates you are using, ride height etc...?

Holy shit! FCM's pricing is through the roof! Last time I checked he was charging $550 or $600. FCM does the job very well but that is a lot of money (too much:ne:). I would look into the Stewart version. (I will myself seeing as this is the first I've heard of it)

Bilstein will do it for you as mentioned for cheap, but the tricky part is telling them what you want. If you tell them the spring rate you will be using you would think that is good enough, but if they keep the same ratio of bump/rebound it could still ride like shit. There have been people on m.net who've had there's done by bilstein and have had decent results(not as highly praised as FCM who almost gets no complaints).(Search for Dward)

I believe the "fast mike" version of the revalve was made specifically for autocross. That could change some of the things you want or don't want on a track.

I would see if you could get a dyno plot of an FCM shock and see if a bilstein tech could try and match the characteristics of it for your specified spring rate.

Just pay the little extra and go with stewart development. Fatcat uses 70's tech to do his shocks, which is fine since the shocks are 70's tech. Stewart using ohlins and showa parts during his revalve, where as fatcat uses only bilstein parts. My shocks are going to stewart asap.

what were you quoted for the re-valve?

Any idea what Stewart charges per shock?? Nothing on their website about shock re-valving but it seems that they do a lot of work for first line NASCAR teams. It would be nice to get a better re-valve then Bilstein provides at a price at little more reasonable than Shaik's. I still can't figure out how Shaik's prices have almost doubled in less than a year; how can it possibly cost 250.00 to revalve a Bilstein??

I would also like to know the price for rebuild from Stewart Development. Thought I saw $400... Is this correct? (I will be in the market in 2-3 months so I'm mostly curious.)

I read FCM was sending people to Stewart because he didn't want to do basic revalves anymore.

Anyone here gone through them?

In for Stewart Development prices. Do they offer the same turn key customer service? FCM seems to know miatas. I'm suprised they would turn away customers considering there sight has the option to buy 4 re valved shocks for $1012 ( At least I thought that included the shocks) Is that just for re valving and you send them your shocks

The FCM revalve does include the shocks...revalving mail-ins is $600, but he's getting away from it, likely due to competition. Only wants to sell new kit, which is the $1012 you see.

If you call now he's got a set of NA bodies on the shelf he offered me for $150. Shocks, revalve and shipping came out to $795.

I just never quite got to $800 of free jack. Ended up finding something I can live with for a good bit less and jumped on it. Used high end coilovers ftw.

Just got an email from stewart racing development. If you are drop shipping him new shocks, then it is $60 for the revalve for each shock. If he supplies the shocks, then it is 60 for revalve and $115 for the shocks. I am waiting to here back on what shocks he uses. I also asked him what info he needs about the car.

So that would be $700 out the door with new revalved shocks from stewart racing.

Since he is from High Point, NC , that automatically makes him good people since that is where I moved from. ;)

wow, that's great pricing!

Do you have contact info for Stewart? URL and/or phone?

thx!

I just talked to him. Real nice guy. I am going to go with a set of these when I get my motor in. I'm going to run my current suspension so that way I have something to compare. The shocks are completely serviceable so you can keep them for as long as you want to run them. After around 5 years they may need to have the oil replaced. I guess it depends on how hard you run them. He can make them work with any spring rate. I've got 342lb in front and 228 lb in rear. He also needs to know what size sway bar is being run, and if I was running extended shock mounts. He agreed with me that without proper tools to dial in a coil over setup, then this will be better. I don't have the time, nor do I want to spend the time with an adjustable suspension. He said he likes to work with higher spring rates. I asked about the competitiveness of my setup after the new shocks. He said it will be very competitive and better than an SM setup (probably due to not having to adhere to a rulebook). I asked if he recommended that I go to a firmer spring. He said that for my application (DD and 1-2 DE events per year) I should keep my springs.

Bernie Stewart
Stewart Development
1321 West Fairfield Road
Suite #110
High Point, NC 27263
(336) 899-0072 Office
(336) 464-2764 Fax
STEWART DEVELOPMENT INC. - WELCOME

I got mine done from Bilstein usa through GHM / Gas Head Motorworks home It is pretty much SPEC miata valving but I am using slightly softer spings. 550 fronts 350 rears.

Does not ride rough at all