Hold the phone... new coilover in town?? Ground Control
 

Maybe Ive just been off the grid too long, but are any of you aware of this??? Been on the hunt for a while now, and this just makes things more difficult!

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...pension-system

Discuss!https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0afa3ead35.png

$1500 for Koni's?

Koni Race (not to be confused with yellows), pimpy hats, nice lower shock bushings, Eibach springs, and sleeves/perches that are still considered by some to be the industry standard.

Yeah, i'd call that a good price. Up to each individual to determine if it's something they want.

too close to xida money

I see everyones point, and trust me, Im on the XIDA bandwagon. Id hate to pass on something tried and true for something new.

Pros to GC : Billet top hat, sperical bearings, dampers valved and stroked( rears ) specifically to spring rate & ride height desires, price point?

Cons to GC: No helper springs, waiting on shock dyno and useable stroke data?

The pros you list for GC are largely built-in on the Xidas, fwiw.

I'm not taking sides, i don't see this particular setup as "EW GROSS KONIS!!!1!!1!one!" but Xidas are a bit ahead of the curve when it comes to development everywhere on Miatas outside of maybe street/stock class autox.

Yeah $100 more then that gets you into Xida's. I see absolutely no reason to buy these. In all honesty when I have my GC coils and sleeves I was not very impressed by them.

I would also consider FMs Fox suspension at that price range, as well as Ohlins

Ground Control is claiming : " The MAX stroke of the front set up for 1" lower than stock package is 8 inches front and 6 inches rear. The MAX stroke of the 2.50" and lower setup is 7 inches front, and 5 inches rear. "

I would be very surprised if this meant more than , the max stroke of the damper, not the max stoke of the assembly.

If i am not mistaken Justin Ross ran these on his TTE miata at one point. Like others have said at the price point why wouldn't you get xida's.

We saw the forum posts announcing these. Nothing earth shaking feature wise. Generic OTS Koni race. All good quality componentry though.

-Steel monotube with a full length aluminum sleeve. Those sleeves will not be an interference fit, they will, by nature, have a small air gap to the shock body. This means they'll run significantly hotter than virtually every other coilover on the market, even low budget steel twin tubes like V Maxx and Tein Flex. This is a big deal for a track suspension. Folks don't often give any thought to shock cooling. The primary reason the Gen 2 Xida increased in diameter over the Gen 1 was to reduce operating temps and increase service life.

- Billet upper mounts use rubber bushings, not bearings. Only the lowers accept bearings.

- Billet upper mounts do no have coaxial spring perches. So they are effectively the same function as OEM NB mounts, just shinier. The extended rears increase bump travel to avoid bottoming with shock bodies that are too long

- No Torrington bearings

- No helper springs. Presumably one could add helpers which would be needed with high rate springs lest the springs come off the perches at full droop.

The equivalent Xida Race or Xida XL setup, NB mounts, no helpers is currently $1799. For that you get a single adjustable, alloy bodied pro level 46mm double digressive piston shock fully assembled with Torrington bearings and Hyperco springs.

They are selling the same thing you could get 10 years ago in a kit. cool. Xidas, please.

Right on. These would have been pretty nifty ten years ago. Not so much anymore. I'm sure some will latch onto the Koni name and go for it, and it may be the best $1400 shock setup out there (and it may not be) but the Xidas are surely worth the extra cost.

Reminds me a cheaper version of my old JIC Magic... don't know if they'll have as much rebound. Will never know, I'm on XIDA 2 now...

2005 called, wants its shocks back

BUT BRO!!!!!!!!

You can slam your car 4" and park so hard

To be completely honest, for the same $1,500 or even up to $2,000 there are WAY better products out there... These GC units look like a typical set of "Ebay" coilovers, and their specs are not very encouraging.

That being said, here's what I see to be "Poor" about them.
1. There is only the single adjustment ring with a tension bolt to keep it locked in place. I've seen plenty of this style strip out and now you have to mutilate them to get the bolt out and even make any adjustments. The "Twin Lock Ring" method is much more sound IMO.
2. There is no Preload capability, therefore preload and ride hight are not independently controllable. This also means that the lower you set the ride height the the less shock travel you have. Which means you'll eventually be on bump-stops or getting coil-bind both of which are a no-no in my book.
3. Even if you don't go low enough to have to worry about the bump-stops or binding, if these are on your daily and you nail a pot hole or raid debris you run the risk of shifting the spring from its perch. This could potentially cause an accident.

The only "Pro" I see to these is the bottom spherical bearing mount which with any higher end coiler you could easily have the same feature included upon special request.

Also just as a side note, you could get BC or Fortune-Auto coilovers built somewhat to your desired specs for $1,300-$1,600

Or buy Xida's for as low at $1600 and have one of the best suspensions for the miata on the market.

Agreed, but I try not to shove one brand down someones throat. I simply mentioned the other two to showcase the point that there are similar products for similar money.

I would heavily question if BC or FA is better than the setup being discussed in this thread. Heavily.

Well considering the level that both of those brand go through in building their units, and the features that come standard. I'd have to say that they're indeed better then these $1,500 cookie cutter GC's. But we are all entitled to our own opinions.

I mean seriously... You're telling me you'd pay $1,500 for some KONI race shocks with fancier selves and the typical Eibach Springs?

Like what? Gotta be specific.

No, i wouldn't pay $1500 for some Koni Races with sleeves and springs. But you're saying that like Eibachs are bad. They're not.

I also wouldn't pay $1000 for BCs or FAs.

I also DID invest around $1500 into a setup based around some off the shelf Bilsteins. Judge me.

Theres plenty of things that I could be "more specific" about. but is that really necessary for a general discussion thread that was asking "Do you think these are worth it?"

I feel that it is, because if BC/FA has a coilover option in the $1500 area that should be cross-shopped with Xidas, we should know about it. But we'd like to know why they're worth the Xidas price tag, and "Because Takahashi_Yuuyia said so" just plain isn't good enough.

I wasn't comparing them to the Xidas I was comparing them to the GroundControl coilovers that was in the OP. My opinion on the topic since he said "discuss" was that, For the same price as you would pay for these GroundControl coilovers you could get much nicer BC or FA coils that have a more features, more adjustability, and a better warranty. I'd have to actually do the research in order to compare Xida to either BC or FA... but if you'd like me to do so and get back with you. I'm down for a little compare and contrast conversation.... Truth be told the brand that i know are out there for the $1,300-$2,000 range and seem to have expected build quality are the Xidas, BC, FA, PowerTrix, and MCA

What additional features do they have? How are they more adjustable?

Only one of those companies you listed appears to have done any real R&D on the Miata chassis.

These aren't eBay coilovers or even close -- they're superior quality than eBay coilovers.... but for the price (or close to it) there are much better products on the market.

The things you're saying about reduced travel when lowering the vehicle and such... that's actually kinda baloney. See: conversation between Mr. Meister R and Emilio on M.net.

I try not to push any one brand most of the time. There are a few miata parts on the market now that are hand and fist above the rest. Xida's are that when it comes to coil overs. The TSE turbo setup is my goto for anyone who wants to track their miata. Other then that most times there are a few comparable parts on the market to choose out of.

I wasn't "Judging you" in the first place. I was simply stating my opinion based on the general information given in the thread so far. Maybe don't be so triggered? And i don't think that Eibachs are bad at all. that's what you interpreted it to mean.

We all know the work Xida has put in, so no need for info or debate in that arena. BC is a custom set-up branded company, so given that the buyer does their research and knows what to ask for there shouldnt be any issues with it. FA is also a custom set-up company so the same applies. you can also select your own spring rates, valving, add a helper spring if you wish, and they dyno each set they assemble to ensure QA and send you the dyno info so that you can see for yourself how they perform. PowerTrix is a small company that has had the miata stuff in the R&D stages for several years and are somewhat of a new-comer i'll admit, i simply included them because of their price point. As far as what features you ask? from the look of what i saw doing a quick search on the GC units, they don't appear to have dampening adjustment (might though since i didn't look to hard as of yet) preload adjustment and ride height are not independently adjustable, the top hat is a bushing and not a spherical bearing....

I didn't say "they are" just eBay coilovers. I said they resemble the build style and appear similar in quality....

And that was exactly my point.... The OP said "discuss" therefore I gave my quick tow cents which were "For the same money there are equal and/or better products available."
Im not partial to any one product because I'm currently still doing the research as to what i want to run on my own car. I was simply pointing out a few other options as to whats out there so that he could do his own research and decide what he wants to go with. Had I known that people were wanting a thesis on my opinion id have not said anything and just made my own thread after having documented data to back up my opinion... it was never a battle of "Who's opinion is better" it was simply an opinion....

Ending with. Yes we all know that Xidas are stellar performers. Yes there are plenty of options for coilovers for the Miata, My OPINION was that for $1,500 I personally wouldn't buy the GC's because I feel they are of inferior build quality. A few brands that the OP should consider looking into (other then the Xidas obviously) are BC, Fortune Auto, PowerTrix, MCA and of course there are the typical name brand stuff like TEIN, Ohlins, Bilstein, so forth and so on. Most of the debate here seems to be coming from me stating my personal view. And now I'm being asked to "justify" why that my opinion? laughable.

That's just it, though. the ONE thing this setup has over some other setups is that it's all very good quality components, unlike the eBay coilovers you find all over the place. Koni are proven to be good quality dampers, it's just old tech.

The issue isn't that you wouldn't buy Xidas or Konis. The issue is that you're presenting those Taiwan/China-based one-size-fits-all companies as a $1500 value, which puts them squarely in the realm of various suspension options that actually have had miata-specific R&D.

I don't think anyone in here is buying a $1500 Koni setup. Nobody in here is buying a $1500 BC/FA/Powertrix/Insert generic Taiwan coilover in whatever color you'd like here setup, either.

You still haven't listed any of the "additional features" that are offered by the companies you're championing. I'm not triggered, i just wouldn't want someone to read this thread and think that spending $1500 on some generic garbage is a good idea, while inviting you to justify the statements you made. Because of course, we're all interested. :)

I can only comment on BCs, cause I have tried them. Granted, the streets here are far from billiard-smooth, but this is where a good suspension should excel. And BC is FAR from that. I have also experienced Meister CRD+ on a friends' NA; much nicer despite the higher rates.

BTW I would prefer a properly engineered (i.e. with specific ride height and travel in mind) single perch setup with helpers over any double perch "separate height from preload" coilover.

bc is trash. like, I would think twice between Riceland and bc, that's how low my opinion of bc is

but I have no dog in this race :giggle::rofl:

dude.........c'mon

"He should consider superior build quality"

.......proceeds to list bottom of the barrel trash

That's because they're better, but I think you understand that. Takahashi doesn't.

Not every brand that I listed is "bottom barrel" but good job picking and choosing parts of what I said to suit your agenda 🙄

I understand it just fine. Like I've already explained. I was simply making a statement showing that they're are plenty of options for the price points.

However, Since I'm the one who's opinion is under fire here for no apparent reason... I'll compile a more thorough response when I get home from work rather then combating my phone trying to reply to everyone 😅

Lol agenda

You're not under fire. No need to victimize yourself. Those companies just suck for this platform, due to us having much better options that cost the same.

qft

I'm not victimizing myself. Last I checked MT.net is more then well known for banter an shit-giving to each other. It's meant primarily as satire to that effect, however it seems the sarcasm is misconstrued.

none the less. The post was for a set of $1500 coilovers. Regardless of other people's stated opinions, MY opinion was that there are plenty of other things out there at the same price point. I never said that anything WAS better then the other. I simply pointed out several other brands that were out there (both good and bad according to everyone else ere who is commenting) because no one has said anything concerning my voicing of MCA (Australian based) Ohlins, TEIN brands products. Your all getting your cats hissy over me sharing my opinion that I'd rather have a different product then the GC's for the price considering that I don't trust the lock-ring style perch, would prefer for ride height and preload be adjustable seperatly, and would like a wide range of dampening adjustability. As well as spherical bearing top-hats... that's just "MY OPINION" nothing more nothing less.

Besides that time that you did.

We're not taking issue with you saying there are other options better than the Konis. The issue we have is the examples you used.

I also listed more then just those two brands... 🙄 Just saying. Not my fault if someone read JUST A PORTION of what I said and chooses to take my word for it. I mean I am just another random guy on the internet with opinions about stuff. 🤦🏼 And saying something "Is nicer" isn't the same as saying "THIS is better". Again, the issue seems to lie in the interpretation.

:rofl: umad bro?:dealwithit:

what is there to be mad about? Did I miss something?

I love this bar.

TIL that "nicer" isn't better.


Still waiting on all those additional features that the milquetoast mass-produced-with-no-platform-specific-R&D coilovers offer over the other options in the ~$1500 arena.

All i really want to know is which ones have the best dampening and handle like they're on rails.

I only want the moistest of train tracks.

ive already listed what I considered additional features over the GC units multiple times. Are you incableable of reading or just splitting hairs in an attempt to be obnoxious?

Wait a second...you're trying draw distinctions between "nicer" and "better" and he's splitting hairs?

Well admittedly, i'm getting confused, because first Eibachs were basic, but now they're fine. Then these other things you mentioned were nicer, but not better.

The only thing that's standing out is that you prefer adjustable body shocks, which has been proven time and time again on these platforms to be inferior, so that's not valid, either.

Am i missing anything?

Clearly, you're missing the fact that it's simply my opinion. Other people shared theirs and I shared mine. I said the Eibachs are "cookie cutter" seeing that it had already been mentioned elsewhere that the GC's while being made from quality components are basically the same thing as what you've been able to build yourself.

Also missing the fact that throughout my replies I mention more then just BC and FA as brands with products in that price point. You also chose to reference Taiwanese/Chinese in reference to the products origin. Not everything from Taiwan/China is trash (even though A LOT are).
BC-Taiwanese- ISO9001 / TUV compliant.
FA-Taiwanese-ISO9002 compliant, steel body and shaft, billet and forged external components, dyno tested with proof of dyno results shipped with your coilovers. And can be built to pretty much whatever specifications you ask for.
MCA-Australian. Ohlins-Swedish. TEIN-Japan. HKS-Japan. Bilstein- Germany. V-MAXX- Netherlands

You also said I was "championing" them, when I'm not defending any of the products I mentioned at all. I am however telling you why " I " have the opinion i do. I never knew trying to have an intelligent conversation about a product of any sort was championing for them. But at the same time this has turned from an "Is it worth it" thread into you riding my dick about what and why my opinion is what it is, due to it not being the same opinion as yours.

:rofl: :rofl:

Easy there chuckles, info was found on their own website.... you got anything saying they are made somewhere else?

V-Maxx the company, is in the Netherlands, the shocks are made in China.

well now...
:likecat:

okay, cool. But where'd you find the info? Considering that I said "got anything saying they're made elsewhere".One wrong out of the list I gave, still doesn't change the premise to my statement as a whole on the topic that not everything from China (or Asian countries for that matter) is an inferior product. 🙄

You forget I'm in the business of selling car parts. I know the exact factory where they come from. I have received samples from them through an agent that was desperately trying to get me to look at their stuff. I offer no commentary, statement or opinion on your previous posts. I was simply correcting you on the country of origin.

As you were.

can't forget what I didn't know. (Browsing this via phone doesn't have all the same icons and badging to make it obvious when corresponding with a vendor) 😅 And don't worry, no offense was taken.

Show me where the opinion is in the bulleted list in your first post. Literally everything in that first post is factually flawed. It's not a difference of opinion, it's a fact.

You've taken the hazing pretty well, but I still disagree with your stated facts of why these coilovers are not superior to the others you mentioned. The reasons they are inferior to better quality products like Xidas is due to their dated design and tendency to run hot, along with lack of features and adjustability for the price -- too much eye candy, too little substance. But the one thing they DO have over comparably price Chinese coilovers is quality. Those Konis will last a long, long time.

Perhaps we can stop talking in circles now.