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Old 09-25-2008, 05:41 PM   #1
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Default Holy carbotech brakedust B-man!

After my track debaucle with Red Stuffs I decided to spend real money on real pads. Carbotech Xp8's all the way around as I have ABS and didn't want to swap pads for the street.

Track? Worked great! I did the Break in was just as described, but on a lonely country road. Track day left the rotors a little glazed, not bad just shinier than when I started.

Post track day daily driving? These are wayyyyy squeakier than the Hawk HPS I used on my Saab. Dusting is unreal. 2 day's after cleaning the wheels they are horribly dirty again. Kind of takes the joy out of seeing the Nickel 6UL's. Stopping is great, no problem cold, wet, hot, etc.

Why post this? Function is great! no complaints! Comfort? Don't expect any. They dust like crazy and everyone in a 2 block radius know's when you are using them. Reading info on them you expect low dusting and a reasonable sound level. At least I did. Just wanted others to know that Carbotech's aren't the 2nd coming. Work great but they are still race pads.

I'm not taking them off. I'm going to try every trick in the book to quiet them down and look for a wheel care product that might help in keeping the dust off or make them clean up easier.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:33 PM   #2
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Give them a few weeks. The noises will still be there, but they should dust less.

A water hose cleans the dust off of my wheels just fine, but then I came from using hawks, and anything is easier on wheels than hawks.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:47 PM   #3
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I've had them in for almost 2 months now. Dust seems to be increasing, not decreasing. Put them in just before a track day. Broke them in a couple days ahead. Only one track day but about 3500 miles now. Gotta wipe to get it off the wheels. Looking for a silicone/wax/mystery-coating product that might make it easier to clean off/ stick less.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:13 PM   #4
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You can count me in as another dissatified Carbotech user. Maybe I'm just not as avid a racer as I thought I was. The pads stop great but they dust to no end. If you aren't dilligent in keeping the dust off, they will become part of the powdercoating on your rims. I've run the Hawk HP+ and the Carbotech dust even worse. Call me a neatfreak but I just went back to the stock pads and press on the pedal just a little more aggressively.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:29 PM   #5
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I've run Bobcats on the street with my NX2000, and they are silent and the brake dust isn't bad at all. I have a set of XP8's for track days, and only track days. I recently bought a 94 SE-R from a buddy, and it has XP8's. Well what do you know, they dust allot more than the Bobcats, and squeal a bit, just a bit. I'll be swapping my Bobcats onto the SE-R for the street since the NX is being parted out.

There's a complete F&R set of 2001-04 Sport Package brakes on my shelf with Bobcats all ready to go on the Miata. When it finally hits the track, I'll buck up for XP's.

Notice the pattern here? Street pads for the street, and track pads for the track.

Regardless of what any brake company says, there is no good pad that does it all. No surprise there. Just like there's no one tire that's good for 4 seasons and track days.

As the English say "Different horses for different courses."

C
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:38 PM   #6
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By the way - directly from Carbotech's site.

Carbotech does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise.

Carbotech™ Bobcat 1521™: The Carbotech Bobcat 1521™ is our high performance street compound that is our most successful compound. The Bobcat compound is known for its awesome release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. Like our AX™ & XP™ line of compounds, Bobcat 1521™ is a Ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor damage and non corrosive dust. Bobcat 1521™ offers outstanding performance, even when cold, low dusting and low noise with an excellent initial bite. This compound’s virtually perfect linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Bobcat 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 900°F. Bobcat 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle, police cruiser, and has won multiple SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo National Championships. The Bobcat 1521™ compound has been found to last two-three times longer than OE pads you can purchase at a dealership or national retailer. Bobcat 1521™ compound has also been found to extend the life of your rotors 2-3 times. That’s one of the beauties of Carbotech Ceramic brake compounds. Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use.

Carbotech XP8™ (1108™): A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range (200°F-1350°F+). Carbotech XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Outstanding initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance, very rotor friendly with 100% non-corrosive dust. Excellent as a front brake pad for lighter ITA, ITB, ITC, SRF, H4, H5, and other cars that weigh less than 2,400lbs. Perfect for novice, intermediate and advanced track day (HPDE) use with any tire, and can still be driven safely to and from the track. There are several vehicles that use XP8™ on the street, autocross, and at track day (HPDE) events. Carbotech does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. XP8™ is also a great rear brake pad for almost any race car (Spec Miata-T1/T2/CMC). XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.

Last edited by chriscar; 09-26-2008 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:28 AM   #7
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Why are you running a track compound pad on the street? I run XP9s on the track and Metal Masters on the street. It only takes 10 minutes to swap them back and forth before and after events. That way I have the best of both worlds.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:39 AM   #8
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I'm looking forward to running these pads in the future.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paNX2K&SE-R View Post
Why are you running a track compound pad on the street? I run XP9s on the track and Metal Masters on the street. It only takes 10 minutes to swap them back and forth before and after events. That way I have the best of both worlds.
Top 5 answers!

5. It's more like 20-30 minutes.
4. It's dirty.
3. It's annoying to spend time doing.
2. There is other work I would rather spend time on.

And the #1 answer?!?

I'm too friggin lazy!!!

I knew/know they are race pads. Duh. I expected more noise. I expected more dust. I just didn't expect this level. I've run other race pads. They were noisy and dusty too. With all the hype and money for the Carbotech's I expected them to be a better "dual" use pad.

As for Carbotech's claim not to use them on the street, there are plenty of street pads that the manufacturer's say "not for street use" just to cover their butt's in Liability suits.

I know there is no ideal dual purpose pad. I just hoped the carbotech's would be better at dual use than they are. Might as well be running Hawk blues for all the noise and dust at 1/2 the price.
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:31 PM   #10
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OK. Another carbotech complaint. There is a huge amount of slop in the pad to caliper fit. Reverse and brake. Clunk. Go forward and brake. Clunk.

There is about 1/8" of play between the pad backing and the calipers. Pads move around all the time. Every time I brake it's "clunk". I spent a bunch of time looking for loose bolts, bad bushings, shocks, etc. before I figured out it was the pads.

Is this usual? Didn't have this issue with Akebono's or EBC's.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjshem View Post
You can count me in as another dissatified Carbotech user. Maybe I'm just not as avid a racer as I thought I was. The pads stop great but they dust to no end. If you aren't dilligent in keeping the dust off, they will become part of the powdercoating on your rims. I've run the Hawk HP+ and the Carbotech dust even worse. Call me a neatfreak but I just went back to the stock pads and press on the pedal just a little more aggressively.
It's not really Carbotech's fault that you picked the wrong brake pad for your application. If you switched from XP8s to OEM pads, it is painfully apparent the XP8 was WAY overkill for whatever you are using your car for.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:17 AM   #12
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A little Permatex anti squeak on the backing plates will usually cure the squeal. Don't uses shims. Dust you can't get way from. That's the price to pay for the rest of the things they do so well, including not eating rotors.

The dust shouldn't bond to the PC on your wheels unless you leave it on there for a long time. I is non corrosive so it won't eat through anything but will eventually leave stains just like leaving dirt on the wheels through many heat cycles will.

For whatever reason, I have noticed the XP10's dust less than the 8's. the AX6's seem to be dustier yet.
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Old 10-24-2008, 03:03 AM   #13
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Bolted up fresh rotors and XP12 front, XP10s rear yesterday. Broke them in with a bunch of 70-20 stops until I felt and smelled the brakes, and then parked the car for a few hours.

The cold bite is impressive, maybe a touch less than the HP+s were. Nothing like the ST-43s which are downright scary on the first few stops. (I could never see using ST-43s on all four corners because I'd crash the car on the way to the track.) They squeal a bit but that's to be expected. No comment on dust, but so long as it doesn't etch the wheel like the ST-43 does, then I'll be a happy camper. Headed to CalSpeed on the 22nd of November so we shall see what they do there.
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Old 10-24-2008, 08:12 AM   #14
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I'm running XP10 fronts & XP8 out back, the squealing isn't so bad, not near as bad as the Cobalt GT-S's I've run in the past. Doesn't bother me any more then the hard suspension, the ingress/digress of my lowered car with high bolstered seats, or the lack of A/C. As for the dusting, someone at the track recommended WheelWax, I've ordered some and waiting to try it.
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:16 AM   #15
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Axxis metal masters dust the same way.

Got to pay to play
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:47 AM   #16
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I run hawks because I can't bring myself to spend $160 on front pads for one trackday.
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Old 10-24-2008, 03:21 PM   #17
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I put a 2ndd track day on these. They are still dusting like crazy but have gotten quieter for some reason. I was too lazy to actually do anything so I guess it's just from wearing in more.

I've got around 5000 miles of street driving and maybe 2 1/2 hours of track time on them now. Still have around 50-60% of the pad left. Pretty happy with the wear and performance. I'm just whiny about the dust and noise. I know. I'm using a track pad on the street, what did I expect!

Have another track day on Sunday. We'll see what's left after that. I'm looking for a wheel wax like product too. If I can keep it from sticking in the 1st place or have it hose off easily I'll be happy. Those 6UL's have a bunch of surfaces to clean. Not fun having to wipe them down all the time.

Might try the xp10's when these are gone. It's a DD car so cold bite is pretty important to me. Good to know it's decent even with the xp12's on Sav's car!

Hustler. If you break them in properly I think you'll get several days out of them. Emilio should be able to give us a more professional idea what to expect from them for wear.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:12 PM   #18
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so basically you bought a begi kit and you've done like 5 track days in 3 months and its been reliable?
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:59 PM   #19
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I haven't tried a dedicated wheel wax, but I applied some Nufinish and a coat of Griot's "best of show" (a hard carnauba wax) to my nickel 6ULs before installing them. After an autocross and three weeks of street driving before I got around to cleaning them, the Carbotech dust (XP10/8) pretty much all came off with the garden hose. Then I just ran my fingers over the wheel surfaces to wipe off what the hose left behind (not much).

Quote:
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so basically you bought a begi kit and you've done like 5 track days in 3 months and its been reliable?
I'd also like to hear an answer to this.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:25 PM   #20
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I recently tried the XP8's all around on my NB. They held up nicely during my last HPDE event. I havent taken them off the car since, but its not daily driven. I previously ran HP+ on the street, but I think I am just going to leave the Carbotech's on. Sure the dust sucks, and they are loud, but they work really well.
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